Shopping trips in general

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This posting is from: Kimberly Kael
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I'm always amazed at how few people show up to attend the shopping
events on the schedule. The first year I attended there was a Town
Square mall trip that only three of us showed up at, and the "shop off
your lunch" gathering I had organized this year also wound up with only
three people (but we had a great time!)

I know most of us love to shop, so what's the reason for poor
attendance? Too much public exposure? Price sensitivity (tip: shopping
doesn't have to mean buying)? Too early in the day?

I'd love to find a way to turn this into a slam-dunk event.

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This posting is from: Tootsye
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Annie,

It was Gerry Robinson and I that had the baby stroller. She had her
grandson in it, but we discovered that it was the perfect cover of a
couple of cross dressers. Who would ever suspect that we were not who we
appeared to be? I even gave thought to trying to start a business of
"Rent a Baby, for those that were nervous about strolling malls enfemme!
<g>

I so miss you gals!

Hugs,

Tootsye

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This posting is from: annie
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> I know most of us love to shop, so what's the reason for poor
> attendance?

We had a few quite successful shopping activities over the
first few years of DLV.

The first shopping trip I remember was in 1998, long before
we had any TG specialty boutiques in the area, and one person
in particular wanted to go shopping in real life but was a
bit shy of doing so. We hit such places as the former Belz,
the Fantastic Indoor Swap Meet (of all things!), a long-closed
shoe shop on Rainbow, and Wally World.

We did a similar thing in 1999, hitting Boulevard Mall, The
Attic (not to shop, but for one couple to pose on the
checkerboard sidewalk - LOL) and a couple other places.

The biggest turnout I remember was in 2001 where we had four
vans full and we could barely get them to fit in the parking
lot behind the old Vegas Girl Wig shop on Eastern! We went to
other places such as Bare Essentials (where one vanload chose
to instead visit a gun shop in the same center) and ended up
at what we now call LVOC.

The funniest anecdote I remember was back in 2002 or 2003
when one group ended up using a baby carriage (I don't know
WHERE they got this!) as a shopping cart and had a fun time
at what we now know as LVOC. :)

> I'd love to find a way to turn this into a slam-dunk event.

One thing I used to do seemed to help, both with the exposure
and the enjoyment factors.

When we first started doing these things, I very quickly
learned of the propensity of our people to gather in one
big bolus, right in the middle of the traffic pattern, and
right in the middle of everyone's field of vision. I also
discovered the tendency of this gaggle to follow me, as
if a swarm of bees, when I actually attempted to do any
shopping.

They seemed to resist gentle prodding to break up into
smaller groups and each go different ways, so I ended up
kind of assertively breaking them up into diads and triads
"You two! That way!" with instructions to meet back at a
certain place at a certain time. As I think back I do
remember Tina and I kind of sweeping the mall from end
to end rounding up the stragglers and herding them to
the carpool area. :)

As for timing, when I did these things I found that
afternoons worked the best. (We've NEVER had a morning
crowd!) A couple times I timed it so we would do dinner
at the food court, which some were not comfortable with.

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This posting is from: annie
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>She had her grandson in it, but we discovered that it was the
>perfect cover of a

LOL, I didn't realize you had a real baby in it! :)

(Gotta see the bayy-bee! Breathtaking!) :) :) :)

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This posting is from: Wanda Mechant
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This was my second DLV, a wonderful experience again, and I want to
extend my thanks the the many volunteers who made it so.

Until the week of DLV I had never ventured out shopping in public.

It was at the invitation of a veteran daytime shopper that I decided to
venture out with her. We left our hotel around 11am and that was
sufficient time for me to be ready. I dressed low-key, easy on the
makeup to blend in as best I could with the public.

We went to the south-east mall in Henderson and DSW. We had no problems
whatsoever. Every retail associate was polite and helpful, without even
a sideways glance or sense of judgment. I will do this again next year
at DLV.

But ...

1) I don't know about doing in it larger numbers - it might attract the
very attention I did not experience and do not want. Shopping again
with my friend may be all that I really want to do

2) depending on the previous night's activities I may not feel up to
hitting the malls in the morning. And depending upon the activities
coming up that night, I may not want to hit the malls that day at all.

Wanda

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This posting is from: annie
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>1) I don't know about doing in it larger numbers - it might
>attract the very attention I did not experience and do not
>want.

That's one reason, one of several, for splitting up the group
when at a mall or shopping center. It makes the group far
less obvious. This also facilitates a more effective shopping
session for all.

If you look around at your local mall, you'll see women
shopping solo, in pairs, or with kids and/or SO, but very
seldom in groups.

>2) depending on the previous night's activities I may not
>feel up to hitting the malls in the morning. And depending
>upon the activities coming up that night, I may not want to
>hit the malls that day at all.

I think this is one reason that daytime activities, in general,
have smaller turnout numbers. There are some practical limits
to energy and enthusiasm levels, and the majority of our
people do tend to prefer evening activities.

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This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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Hi Kimberly

I think you hit on several points. One is public exposure, and the other
is price.

On public exposure, a CD is venturing into the real woman's world of
clothing. If the CD doesn't pass visually as a women or for that matter
talk like a women, it can affect their confidence in those dept sections
or stores that cater to women exclusively. The store clerk will and at
most times be professional and treat the CD as a lady (its all about
money and sales), but not necessarily the customers which may complain
or gawk.

Its also a very big step for those who have just walked out of the
closet. It may be hard enough to go to a DLV event dressed, and too hard
to go shopping dressed and faced with communicating with a sales clerk.

In thrift stores and even retail stores, men do go buy clothing for
their wives or girl friends. I shop at Savers and retail in male mode
in the women's sections with no problems. Other shoppers don't even
turn their head. There can be a CD in those stores too, and it won't
matter, for no one will bother, unless for that few red-necks looking
for trouble, which is rare. Most are in the shops to do one thing, find
what they are looking for, and could care less about other shoppers.

Its all in the mind of the CD. Its the fear of potential problems and
infinite possibilities of how one will be read and received by the
store employees and customers. Once that fear is overcome, usually by
going into and buying a few things in a store or two, that the CD
realizes the fear is a false one, develops a confidence and says " I
can do this!" Its like fear of the first time of stepping out of the
closet and into a gender safe public business. It took me several
tries with Debbie Sage to get this confidence.

So those CDers that cannot or don't want to face and defeat this fear
will not go, though they would benefit the most from such a activity.
These may need one-on-one encouragement to do this for the first time.

The second is style and price. Many thrift stores depend on donation.
Savers does a excellent job in separating the type of clothing and size
but not all thrift stores are willing to do this. Also they may have
only one item... ie GAP jeans size 16 in low rise cut. So finding what
fits, and style that a CD wants can be a difficult task. Add to this
the supply and sizing are very limited since its based on what women no
longer want and they donate it. A CD may find something she likes but
its in size 5 and she's size 14. Then its a color problem, where they
have the item the CD wants but in a color thats not very good...say
bright green and pink and the CD wants black.

Savers does offer a price sequence where certain days and colored tags
are offered at 50% off to down to $1. But not all thrift stores do
this. It can be all under one title, IE skirts all sizes, lengths,
colors mixed from kids to adult sizes. . Retail stores as in specialty
boutiques don't supply CD larger sizes for the sizes they usually carry
goes from 8 - 14, unless the store is specific for larger size women
(Torrids, Lane Bryant) and since these are new clothing, the price can
be high. Retail offers more variety of the same item or styling of
clothing, than only one in thrift stores

So both retail and thrift shops may not have what a CD is looking for,
that affects the decision to go shopping or not. From a personal side,
I would be looking for everyday clothing. Some CDers may be looking for
for glitzy or formal stuff. Others for basic undergarments. Others may
have enough items and no need to go shopping. Some may want to look at
costume or moderate priced jewelry to enhance their appearance. Some
may want to go to gender friendly stores like Just You, or look for
more exotic wear at Studio Lites. Some don't care to shop and waste a
vacation day shopping in LV, than doing other fun things, like
gambling. So alot depends on the type of stores on this shopping tour
that may have to be varied to appeal to the masses of DLV.

Thrift stores have used clothing that can and many times been tailored
to fit the female that bought it brand new. One can buy a item size 14
and when trying it on, find out its been tailored to a size 12. There
are signs on the clothing to tell this, but the CD needs to know this.
Some thrift stores allows returns, other don't. This can be a good
factor in trying the item back home that at the store, and less stress
on the CD that doesn't have to try the item on at the store. It also
makes it hard to find something that fits.

The beginner CD may not know their size, and each manufacturer is a bit
different. IE a size 16 may be a size 20 fit depending on the brand. So
the CD needs to do their homework and know the size they fit depending
on brand before they can shop for themselves. Again this may need some
one-on-one coaching.

Some thrift stores may charge as much as if that same item was brand
new. Used clothing is great value, but remember that this thrift clothes
can be used, or brand new and prices may reflect that. IE a used tank
top at Savers from Old Navy but in somewhat worn condition, can be
priced between $5 and $8, when a sale at the Old Navy store can be the
same price of $8 brand new. So knowing prices are important.

As far as ideas, this type of activity may be good for the beginner or
newbies that can be coached with a veteran on shopping for basics, and
going to stores for basics, and to help them calm and remove their
fears. One idea is to take them shopping as men having them buy female
clothing in their size (thrift or retail shop), then return or go to
another outlet of the same store as a female to buy another item as a
female, then after have a review how it went. Both ways will allow
them to discover that their fear is not a reality. Once they do this
successfully, have a victory drink or meal if successful at the end,
and boosting their confidence in shopping on their own, or have another
session to work on the problems encountered.

Just some ideas

- Kumiko

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This posting is from: Gabi
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I think going in large numbers would not be fun at all. Even
the 5 of us attracted some attention. Born women almost always
go shopping in pairs or 3 as you suggest.

My best shopping experiences were either alone or with one
other gal. So maybe plan a day of shopping that has us at a
mall for a couple of hours. We break up in small groups. I
think if someone knew the area well she could take us woman
from far away and show us where the malls are. I found the
one near the paris because I went to the make up session.

It could even be as informal as someone making a list and
creating directions and we could gather in small groups in
cars. Just a few thoughts from a first timer.

Gabi

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This posting is from: JoAnn
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My two cents worth--

My I suggest the following for next year to be considered---
The best shopping experience is to make it a "Treasure Hunt"... and
people travel in singly or in two's, but no more than three (maybe)!
And it is in the afternoon.

Have a lunch the following day to share with prize categories
established with the "shopping locations" handout. The prizes are
awarded by the group on a "consensus basis" for best purse for under
$30, etc., etc.

Just a thought for you, Gabi. Hopefully you might volunteer to
coordinate such an event.

JoAnn

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This posting is from: Kate Smith
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Hi.

This is a nice thread, let's keep it going and we might have a new and
special event for 2011. I like the idea of the smaller groups and lunch
the day after too, I think it would be a nice way to bond with new
friends also. Shopping for a day and not getting back together again
till' one year later at the next DLV seems a tad silly when you
particularly liked the people you spent the day with.

I would love to help or maybe hostess this kind of thing next year and
have both Gabi and JoAnn join me in organizing it. Even if I am only an
assistant I suspect we could come up with a nice new slant on the basic
shopping trip and turn it into a possible 2 dayer. It might be nice if
we added in a few Vegassy photo op's to the mix too and a light lunch
somewhere nice.- Or even just the odd pic taken at the lunch venue. ( I
like piccies of an occasion they help me rmemember what a nice time I
had). We took a few piccies during the Thrift thingy, they were nice
but merely pics in and outside of the stores. I think a stop or two at
some Vegas landmarks, (locations to be discussed at the time of said
trip) might be nice as a side shift and a break from shopping. EX:- Say
groups of 3 go shopping and meet at the Vegas Sign on LV Boulevard South
at a certain time to . Not necessarily there per se, Just as an example.

If either of you are interested in developing this please let me know?

Hugs Katie.

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