DLV leadership, authority, and organization (was Re: Ages)

[annie]

Let's please get this out of the way so we can concentrate on productive matters.

This undercurrent seems to come up cyclically, seasoned with a subtle dash of snark in many cases.

There are not many, but there are a few people very persistently saying some very bad things about a very good program and some very good people!

> DLV is probably the most transparent organization I've ever been
> involved with, of course, I'm one of those evil organizers.

We have tried to make this even more so in recent years.

Still, I keep hearing occasional assertions that key decisions about our program are made by an entrenched few from behind closed doors. I and others can assure everyone that this is not the case. Every decision of significance is brought up within our ORG group and if necessary is decided upon by those in that group who hold voting status. There are no "secret committees" as has been implied.

If anyone does not like the way our program is run, anyone in a leadership position, myself included, can be removed by a "recall" motion at any time, as outlined in our Standing Rules. One thing we implemented this year is an annual "vote of confidence" (or of no confidence) for those holding named positions.

Another item that keeps persisting, which is a bit more relevant to the topics at hand, is this notion along the line of "All you do at DLV is eat and drink." Anyone who believes this has obviously never attended or even browsed one of our recent schedules! Well, it could be that someone could do DLV and only do the dining and bar activities, but ... The statement above can easily be refuted (refudiated?) by a quick perusal of the photos on our web site.

Yes, I admit we do have quite a few activities at which adult beverages are served. Why do we have them? Because our people enjoy them!

One chronic criticism I must admit has some basis in fact. In years past we did indeed go too far regarding enforcement of dress guidelines. It was a lesson we learned the hard way. It was trial and error, in response to things getting out of hand, dress and behavior wise, at our 2003 event. Had we done nothing, our program probably would have folded before our 2004 event.

The last of our enforcement train-wrecks is now 10 year old water under the bridge! Let's move on and give it a rest, please!

Our people have, however, made it very clear that they do want us to have standards for dress and behavior (anyone who disagrees, please speak up, and I promise you will not be "verbally and personally attacked by several ORG leadership people" if you do so) but they have also made it very clear that they do not want enforcement to be an overriding theme of our event.

The bottom line is that we try to be as fair and as transparent as we can be, and we've always held to the principle that those who do the work make the decisions. If anyone does not like the way things are being done, they can volunteer to do the job better.

[Katie Wilson]

Hi Girls.

I am not one of those people who blindly follows the lead of those in power or those who are most popular, or feel the need to suck up to those in charge either. That is absolutely not my thing! I have a mind of my own and this has always worked well for me. ( For a Very Long Time ) I might add. which puts me in the older age group.
Just thought I'd explain that before writing my thoughts here so that you don't think I am sidling up to the boss for a pat on the head.

I had my best ever D L V this year which is something I said after attending last year too. I have attended semi regularly since 2002 and Never ever had a bad time. Some years were better than others of course but the good thing is that my close friends list has expended enormously mainly due to the fact that my own confidence level has risen and luckily I have ran into some terrific ladies here and there who were accepting and inclusive .

When I was new to DLV back in 2002 through 2010 perhaps I used to feel a bit inadequate but I got over it!
This is an easy trap to fall into when those around you look and act so proficiently and you are simply struggling to stay afloat and trying hard to fit in. ( I did not dress from a young age, I was 55 when I first tried it so I have not had the many years of development most have and had some catching up to do ) . I assume that there are a few who feel this way and our event has probably helped them to become better T women because of being with people who dressed so well and were willing to help even if it was only in a small way. These thing all add up in the big picture!

There were some activities over the years which I did not like at all so I just left early and avoided them the next year, It is not brain surgery or rocket science, It is simple common sense and because I am an Adult. After all it is My money that I am spending so I had better use it wisely and enjoy what I am doing right?

I like the cleaner side of being a part time woman . I don't do Gay bars or fetish events and I Do realize that not everyone thinks this way and there is nothing wrong with that! DLV fits the bill for me and when it doesn't I will simply do something else. It is a once / year T vacation for me where I can almost forget who I really am and it is held in the best place possible to do it in. I think the head organizers do a good job but they worry too much and try too hard to please everyone. ( Not a bad thing but unnecessary I think ) . Who knows, We may get some Wildsiders back someday when they get tired of high end partying. *lol*

Wild side would not suit me at all, I am sure it is a great event and those who attend go home as happy and contented as I do after it is over. I am glad that they decided to break away and start their own form of Vacation because if they had stayed with us we might not be as good as we are due to the demand for severe change and the 30 somethings ideas would be prevalent .

DLV is great and likely always will be, as long as we stop being in competition with other events and try to emulate them. ( I can't believe we still have people who want an info desk set up in the hotel ..Sheesh! ) *lol*.For one thing. Where would we put it in a Casino environment? and 2) Who the heck is going to sit there all day long and ruin their own vacation?

We were the prototype for this type of week long activity and the wildsiders just expanded on our game plan to accommodate their own ages *or wishful thinking ages* and preferences and as far as I can see they are doing a great job ....But so are we!

Happy days girls and boys. I will very likely be back again next year.

Huggarito's. Katie

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Jamie Norman
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I know it is very hard for some people to take criticism. I have been to
the last 5 Divas and for the most part I do like it. Yes , for some of
us DLV seems to be about people going out to dinner and that is it. I
know that there are many daily activities but had yet to want to go to
any of them except the golf.

My only wish is, if there was a better way of meeting and getting to
know people just like me.

Some of the girls are very clicky (sp). They will say hi to you but
after that nothing. Me meeting new people is nobody's fault but mine. It
would be wonderful at least for me during a dinner one night someone
announced to all the girls "Hey a bunch of us are going to_____for
drinks or what ever and if you want to come let's go". I have found a
lot of girls talk to those they know with their plans and if we don't
know them we are left out. Again my fault but would be nice to be
invited to do things with girls I don't know.

Maybe have an app or something we could go on to see where everyone is.
I have two girls I love to hang around at Diva but I get tired of always
having to ask them what they are doing and if I don't I am left alone.
Not everyone has all the friends they need to go out and have fun, some
of us need some help in meeting people and introducing ourselves.

That would be make it so much more fun


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(This posting was entered by Jamie Norman, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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To re-focus - it was asked about and I quote

"Do we have a need or desire for more younger attendees?""How can we
tweak things to better serve younger attendees?" "are the two Big
Burning Questions I would like to hear answers to." "I don't know so I'm
asking."
---

Again, DLV is what it is. B

For those that find its perfect for them - great! They will attend.
Nothing has gone against that, nothing wrong with that. Vera and Katie
is correct.

For those that don't. They will not return. They don't care or bother to
follow DLV protocol and pursue 'recall'. There is absolutely no reason
to do that. Its not what they want to do, and some may comment, and
leave it as that. They see exactly the kind of reaction in disc we are
seeing here. Where it moves from what its asked to getting blown up
into: "Leadership, authority, and organization".

What Katie and Vera wrote is good too - and it defends the way DLV is.
Great! Again, not what was asked. What is asked is about younger
attendees and tweaking things so they attend DLV. Katie said Wild Side
isn't for her. Vera loves the way things are. I agree, Wild Side isn't
for everyone. Including me.

The truth is by their success that they are attracting the younger
cders. For whatever reasons, they have their numbers, and its for that
type of CDer, and the reality is that they are the younger group. B
Again the activities define who attends. Some will find DLV boring and
prefer what the Wild Side does. Its also hinted at in the comments.

Katie again gives a good answer too:

"I would imagine that younger. Let's say 20 to 40 somethings would not
likely be interested in most of what we do and to tailor the whole event
for the 4 who might show up would not be very wise. Could this mean in
the long run that the older ones among us stop going to D.L.V. due to
loud rock bands, Rap music taking over and shows on the schedule that do
not interest 95% as who attend now?"
---

Comments from this year's DLV, have reported the problem about the age
gap, and of doing the same thing so its there in the comments:

"I am worried that DLV is losing touch with attendees under 40 who are
spending more time at Wild Side instead. I also heard several people
express concern about the dates and now it overlapped with Easter
weekend."

"It seems that DLV does the same events, year after year."

"What can we do to attract younger people? I found the event to be a
little uptight, geared towards older people. Perhaps the nightly dinners
could be set up for a certain interest or age group, as opposed to the
preference for food type or location. That way you could connect with
similar people with similar interests. I like to go to clubs and bars,
but found most of the crowd to be late 50s and 60ish; and more
interested in quiet dinners, than clubbing. The event was much more
quiet than what I would have liked."
---

So to answer how to tweak DLV? Look at the comments! Wild Side has been
mentioned. Wild Side is the ONLY other very successful LV CD event. Why
is Wild Side successful in getting younger CDers to attend their event
with success? It has to be something to draw them. Seems their strategy
is working for younger cders and DLV's strategy is not working. What
events attract them at Wild Side that DLV can do so the younger cder's
are also happy with DLV?

Is it copying Wild Side? NO. Its finding the reasons why, and what
activity attracts them that Wild Side has done, and morph it to
something better and in a DLV way. This is IF DLV wants this, which goes
back to what is being asked.
---

As far as people thinking DLV does the same thing every year -- Its
being said. You can choose to ignore it. I really don't care. Its being
said, and its a credible observation. People don't care to hear
explanations from the org people defending their actions, about
transparency or openness or executive actions, or past history. They
will see the results. Nothing wrong with the activities. B Its doing the
same thing each year. Its OK for newbies, and those that like to do the
same thing.

Others have found it too repetitive and it becomes time to do other
things. There is always the fellowship, not touching that one, but that
is the one thing that is good about DLV, but then again, its also
happening with Wild Side too.

Again, DLV is what it is. If its attendees and org and leadership will
make it a eating and drinking and add other things to do event, it will
be that. Nothing wrong with that. If part wants younger attendees,
DLV has to change to offer what they want. If you don't agree, fine
with me too. Each person has their reasons to attend or not to attend.

As far as younger cders, if you were in your 20s and 30s, would you be
doing the same thing your parents (in their 50s and 60s) wants to do in
LV? If I was in my 20s, I'd say NO. I'd fellowship to a point, but what
I want to do in LV would be different, and if not offered, find others
that will go with me and go on our own, and that is what always happens
anyway. Even now, if I was in my 20s, I'd take advantage and gamble, and
more so in femme mode. It was fantastic the first time, and still is.

As typical of disc dealing with changes, it gets blown up beyond
recognition on what was the original purpose or intent, and it doesn't
remain very objective.


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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vera Delmar
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The good thing I find about DLV is that there's something there for
everyone...it's like a buffet. Taste something once and you don't like
it, then skip it next time. Love something a lot, then do it all the
time until you get sick of it. If there's nothing there you like but
enjoy hanging out with some of the gals, then make it a personal launch
pad for you and other like minded friends to go out on your own and have
fun the way you want to have have fun.

It's not rocket science, and we don't change a registration fee so
you're not out anything except your travel and hotel and personal
expenses which you'd incur away if you came on your own to Vegas. Except
you're with the best and friendliest gals you'll ever encounter at a TG
event.


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(This posting was entered by Vera Delmar, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vera Delmar
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> Let's please get this out of the way so we can concentrate on
> productive matters.

BRAVO!


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(This posting was entered by Vera Delmar, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Delaney
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For newer girls reading this link, Katie Wilson (above) hosts Katie's
Koffee Korner most mornings during DLV.For the price conscious, or those
hoping to meet others in a smaller, freindly group setting, it's a great
low cost, daily event !


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(This posting was entered by Delaney, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Sara P.
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I have said before, if DLV is ok with the fact that it is likely to die
on the vine, then everything is OK. There really isn't anything
inherently wrong with that concept. I disagree with the earlier reply
which suggested as long as there are volunteers, DLV will continue. Not
necessarily true. what fun will it be to put together an event if no one
shows up?

Only time will answer the question but if I were to guess, our numbers
will dwindle over the years while Wildside is in a position to adapt as
their membership (for lack of a better word) ages. If the youth get a
little tired, maybe all they'll want to do is dine and drink. Given they
are already in their comfort zone, I don't see any reason why they'd
migrate over to DLV. Such is my theory about the long-term viability of
DLV (and I'm talking years, 20+ for this to come to fruition).

I wouldn't change a thing to cater to the younger crowd. If we end up
with an infusion of youth and they want to put together some different
flavored events, terrific. If someone who is older decides they want to
coordinate an activity that is perceived as being more "youthful",
awesome as well. I just wound't make it some sort of conscious mandate.

As for the perceived repetitive nature of the activities, if it works,
why fix it? I'll use P.F. Chang's as an example. While the numbers are
down from the early years of this activity, it still attracts 30+. Why
go back? 1) The room is as perfect as you can get for a solid mid-size
group. 2) They love us. 3) It is actually quite reasonable. I was kind
of taken aback by a comment a few weeks ago which suggested that PF's
was pricey. Really? The average entree is right around $16 and that is
EASILY shared among two, not to mention happy hour at the front end. I
could get out of PF's for $20-ish if I wanted to. That sure beats
spending nearly $10 for Panda Express! I dare to say that two friends
sharing an entree and having a couple happy hour cocktails could do it
for less than $35.

Another comment on repetition, our group has learned that finding venues
to accommodate the larger gatherings isn't particularly easy. I'd be
shocked if BB is ever NOT on the schedule. PF's will be there as long as
I am a DLV participant and if the most recent ending gathering was a
resounding success, I'd see no fault in doing that again rather than
beating our collective heads against a wall trying to find something new
& exciting. There is plenty of room for creativity on those days which
do not have a larger gathering on the schedule.

Sara


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(This posting was entered by Sara P., an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vera Delmar
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I hope Diva Las Vegas is still around for those now "younger" gals when
they start feeling they are too old to be hanging out with the young
"Wildside" gals.


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(This posting was entered by Vera Delmar, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Jamie Norman
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I am almost 55 and I go to both and never thought it was an age thing
that made one better or worse than the other. Yes, I find the girls that
go to Wildside to be more active and outgoing as a whole. My impression
of Diva is "Dinner" and yes I know there are other events taking place
during the day. Disagree or agree it is still my impression.

Jamie Norman


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(This posting was entered by Jamie Norman, an external user of MyDLV.)