This posting is from: CindyB
----------
(Moderator's note. This was sent to the wrong address and was therefore
delayed as it had to be manually redirected.)
Tap, tap, tap. Hello? Is this thing on? Oh! Ok...thanks. Good evening
ladies, it's my turn to step up on the soapbox.
First, let me say how much I appreciate the organizing committee's hard
work (whoever they are). I know it's not easy and requires a lot of time
and effort.
About the Mother's Day issue: I've had plenty of time to think this
thing over (esp. after surviving a disk crash and then being sequestered
for a week to a hotel room in a remote location of America by my
company), I have come to several conclusions. I do not want to offend
anybody on the organizing committee but I'm going to say what I think
needs to be said.
Mother's day is a special holiday for those of us who are married and
have children still at home. Before I was married and had children, I
was like the majority of the organizing committe, Mother's Day really
didn't mean a whole lot to me. But over the years I have come to
appreciate this holiday as it is a celebration of mothers and what they
do for their children. I never realized how important of a holiday this
weekend was for the rest of America until I discovered a few facts. Did
you know Mother's day is the busiest long distance calling day of the
year? The second biggest week for florist? The biggest day in terms of
revenue for many restraunts? The slowest day of the year for golf
courses? So, for those of you on the organizing committee that have
discounted Mother's Day, please take note what a special holiday it is
for the rest of America. Also, I think you will find most airline and
hotel specials are not available on Mother's Day weekend.
I've been part of an organizing committee within my company. Last year,
our company decided to host an open house for our 1,500 customers. All
expense paid trip including golf, tennis, room and board, etc. The
decision was made to have it end on the Saturday before Mother's Day. I
was the lone dissenting vote, warning the entire group that ending the
open house the Saturday before Mother's Day was a serious mistake. They
used the same arguments as the DLV organizing committee that it would be
over on Saturday, that this was a vacation for our customers and not a
convention, yada, yada, ya. Well, invitations were sent out and less
than 10% of customers agreed to attend. Normally, we have close to 60%
participation. Needless to say, the open house was cancelled and
rescheduled for September of this year. Attendance far exceeded
expectations as close to 65% of our customers attended.
I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
what is best for DLV but what was convenient for 15 members of the
organizing committee. If DLV's goal is to continue growing (or to at
least maintain it's current level), this choice of dates is a huge
mistake. If the goal of the organizing committee is to slow growth, and
in fact shrink attendance, these dates are outstanding!
As for the discussions I have read, I am offended by some of the
responses of those on the committee. I think everyone who has responded
to the issue at hand has in their hearts the best interest of DLV. But
when a discussion has occurred and responses from the committee is such
as "shut up and deal with", it's very discouraging. Why not just be
honest and say "your opinion doesn't matter, go away". Regarding the
responses of "focus on the positives", I find this simply a cop out.
What people are voicing are not negatives but concerns. When you try to
twist peoples opinions and concerns into something they are not, it is a
simple attempt to avoid the discussion. Same thing goes for the "you
don't like it, start your own" comments. It's nothing more than a cop
out to stifle the discussion.
With all that said, I have never felt more disenfranchised with a group
that I felt so very close to just a few months ago. I had the time of my
life at DLV 2003 and had already planned on attending in 2004. It
doesn't look like DLV '04 is in the cards for me and that's alright.
Apparently DLV is not for the masses but for 15 people. I'll be
disappointed if I can't attend but I'm sure I'll survive. I WILL try to
find a way to attend but the decision by the organizing committee has
really narrowed my choices. I think the organizing committee will come
to regret these dates. My concern now is not for me but for DLV. I hope
DLV survives as it offers a great oppurtunity to a lot of people.
Thanks and hugs!
CindyB
CindyB steps off the soapbox.
P.S. Yes Tina, being in my company IS fabulous. It's always fabulous
when you hang with CindyB :-)
----------
(This posting was entered by CindyB, an external user of MyDLV.)
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My last word on Mother's Day
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9 posts
• Page 1 of 1
My last word on Mother's Day
by External Poster » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:17 pm
- External Poster
- External
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- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm
My last word on Mother's Day
by External Poster » Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:51 am
This posting is from: annie
----------
>First, let me say how much I appreciate the organizing committee's hard
>work (whoever they are).
I'm one of them. One of the others has identified herself. The others are
free to identify themselves if they choose to do so.
The DLV organizers may not be as visible as those of other t* community
events for several reasons. Few ever flaunt their status, and we prefer
DLV without any class structure or pecking order. Another reason is that
our volunteers make up a good percentage of the DLV attendees in
general. At almost any DLV activity in 2003, about 20-25% of those
present were the organizers. I know this for a fact. I counted.
Our volunteers now number almost 40. All ages from the 30's to the 70's
are represented. Some are typical of those who frequent t* events, many
are not. Over 50% of our oragnizers are parents, all have or had a
mother.
These people are some of the finest people you will know on either side
of life, if you get to know them. I know all of the, some of them quite
well, and I assure you there is not a single jerk in the bunch.
>I know it's not easy and requires a lot of time and effort.
And this effort is unpaid and in too many cases unthanked.
>I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
>what is best for DLV but what was convenient for 15 members of the
>organizing committee.
I will grant that this may be partly true. In DLV, it is those who
step forward to do the work who get to make the decisions, including
scheduling. That's the way it should be.
One item I would like to clarify is this perception that there is some
kind of a smaller "core group" who really makes the decisions. Let me
assure you this is not the case. (At least if it is, I'm unaware of
it.) All volunteers (30-some) had one vote on the schedule.
>If DLV's goal is to continue growing (or to at least maintain it's
Growth for the sake of growth is not a goal of DLV. We grow naturally
because people return and keep telling others they like it.
>If the goal of the organizing committee is to slow growth, and in fact
>shrink attendance, these dates are outstanding!
Actually, one of our long-time organizers is on record preferring a
smaller, more intimate, and easier to manage crowd, but we're not going
to intentionally discourage attendance. We realize that our model will
not scale well to large crowds, so in the future, yes, we may have to
limit attendance.
>"your opinion doesn't matter, go away".
Your opinion does matter and it was requested -- two months ago.
Although the decisions were made by our ORG group, input was requested
from all. Our proposed dates were announced on August 1, and feedback
was invited for the next month. Only one comment, a concern about the
weather, was received.
>responses of "focus on the positives", I find this simply a cop out.
I would interpret this as an invitation to suggest constructive
solutions.
I would suggest that if you do indeed want to have more say in the
way DLV operates, that you volunteer. You will then have one vote on
the items that cannot be decided by consensus. This also means that
yes, you will be expected to take on an active role in planning and
implementing the activities that make up DLV.
----------
(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)
----------
>First, let me say how much I appreciate the organizing committee's hard
>work (whoever they are).
I'm one of them. One of the others has identified herself. The others are
free to identify themselves if they choose to do so.
The DLV organizers may not be as visible as those of other t* community
events for several reasons. Few ever flaunt their status, and we prefer
DLV without any class structure or pecking order. Another reason is that
our volunteers make up a good percentage of the DLV attendees in
general. At almost any DLV activity in 2003, about 20-25% of those
present were the organizers. I know this for a fact. I counted.
Our volunteers now number almost 40. All ages from the 30's to the 70's
are represented. Some are typical of those who frequent t* events, many
are not. Over 50% of our oragnizers are parents, all have or had a
mother.
These people are some of the finest people you will know on either side
of life, if you get to know them. I know all of the, some of them quite
well, and I assure you there is not a single jerk in the bunch.
>I know it's not easy and requires a lot of time and effort.
And this effort is unpaid and in too many cases unthanked.
>I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
>what is best for DLV but what was convenient for 15 members of the
>organizing committee.
I will grant that this may be partly true. In DLV, it is those who
step forward to do the work who get to make the decisions, including
scheduling. That's the way it should be.
One item I would like to clarify is this perception that there is some
kind of a smaller "core group" who really makes the decisions. Let me
assure you this is not the case. (At least if it is, I'm unaware of
it.) All volunteers (30-some) had one vote on the schedule.
>If DLV's goal is to continue growing (or to at least maintain it's
Growth for the sake of growth is not a goal of DLV. We grow naturally
because people return and keep telling others they like it.
>If the goal of the organizing committee is to slow growth, and in fact
>shrink attendance, these dates are outstanding!
Actually, one of our long-time organizers is on record preferring a
smaller, more intimate, and easier to manage crowd, but we're not going
to intentionally discourage attendance. We realize that our model will
not scale well to large crowds, so in the future, yes, we may have to
limit attendance.
>"your opinion doesn't matter, go away".
Your opinion does matter and it was requested -- two months ago.
Although the decisions were made by our ORG group, input was requested
from all. Our proposed dates were announced on August 1, and feedback
was invited for the next month. Only one comment, a concern about the
weather, was received.
>responses of "focus on the positives", I find this simply a cop out.
I would interpret this as an invitation to suggest constructive
solutions.
I would suggest that if you do indeed want to have more say in the
way DLV operates, that you volunteer. You will then have one vote on
the items that cannot be decided by consensus. This also means that
yes, you will be expected to take on an active role in planning and
implementing the activities that make up DLV.
----------
(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)
- External Poster
- External
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm
My last word on Mother's Day
by External Poster » Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:47 pm
This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
----------
I have a few concerns....
>I do not want to offend anybody on the organizing committee but....
Who or whom is in this 'committee' you are refering to?
>I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
>what is best for DLV
What is your 'best for DLV' ?
>I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
>what is best for DLV but what was convenient for 15 members of the
>organizing committee. If the goal of the organizing committee is to
>slow growth, and in fact shrink attendance, these dates are
>outstanding!
This is a very sarcastic negative remark to make, after the dates have
been set.
You are accusing others (15) who voted of organized malicious intent on
planning to slow down the growth of dlv. Where's your proof?
We could have used your 'expertise' and 'insite' when deciding what
dates for dlv. Where were you during the discussions?
If you were late in joining because of work or pc problems, then its
your fault.
You have no right to blame those that voted on the dates that were
presented, and took part in the decision process, accusing them of
intent, without showing some sort of proof of your accusations.
Those that votes could have just chose a date (dates stated by anyone
during the discussion phase), that works the best for themselves. Whats
wrong with that? How does this become a conspiracy?
>I am offended by some of the responses of those on the committee. I
>have never felt more disenfranchised with a group that I felt so very
>close to just a few months ago. Regarding the responses of "focus on
>the positives", I find this simply a cop out. It's nothing more than a
>cop out to stifle the discussion. But when a discussion has occurred and
>responses from the committee is such as "shut up and deal with", it's
>very discouraging. Why not just be honest and say "your opinion doesn't
>matter, go away".
Discussion is what it is, an open forum, where everyone has a chance to
speak their mind, making good or bad comments. Everyone's opinion
matters and Annie has stressed this from the very beginning, and has
worked hard to keep this forum quite open, and presented everyone's
comments to everyone.
You are doing what you just complained about...calling other people's
concerns about 'focus on the positives' as a 'cop out'. You are saying
to these people's concerns as 'your opinion doesn't matter, go away' and
'shut up and deal with it' because you are offended by it.
What is your solution?
What exactly do you mean by 'cop out'?
You are also saying to everyone to 'shut up and deal with' the problem dates.
>When you try to twist peoples opinions and concerns into something they
>are not, it is a simple attempt to avoid the discussion. Same thing
>goes for the "you don't like it, start your own" comments. It's nothing
>more than a cop out to stifle the discussion.
Everyone will get a slightly different interpretation and understanding
of what someone wrote. Mis-understanding what was written is quite
possible, because of the way it was written, and the interpretation can
be a honest understanding of what was written and NOT twisting someones
opinions and concerns. Understanding what what was written would be
mostly the same for everyone or different for everyone. How is this an
attempt to avoid the discussion?
You again are doing the same thing you are complaining about, twisting
peoples opinions with your view (cop out - avoid discussion) of what
they are saying. That opinion or concern "you don't like it, start your
own" may have originially meant something else (other than a cop out)
that is related to the discussion, or else why add it to that
discussion?... and NOT an attempt to avoid the discussion.
What makes your view on this the only correct one?
Comments by those that said this?
>What people are voicing are not negatives but concerns.
OK, they state their concerns.
Some are positive, but when there are concerns, it tends to be negative
(contray to what you state) as in something wrong or issues that need to
be addressed that wasn't earlier.
Then the issue becomes: What do we do then about their concerns?
Do we:
Keep the focus and expand and concentrate on criticism and negative comments?
Attack everyone and have everyone discouraged and have bad feelings and
attitudes?
Do nothing and just have everyone complain about the organizers of any
event, about everything that event is disagreeable to them, in their
world?
Provide no positive alternatives or changes and provide just negative
comments or problems?
You have stated that trying to improve things and positively better
events to make them more enjoyable is WRONG because 'focusing on the
positive is a cop out'!
In fact positively changing the dates away from Mother's Day weekend
would also be wrong to you, for the same reasons.
>I think the organizing committee will come to regret these dates.
I'm sorry, but those trying to plan dlv activities are only human, and
in this case of the dates, may not have made this decision to everyones
liking, and will probably make mistakes in the future. They will learn
from the mistakes, re-evaluate, make adjustments and move on, learning
from their mistakes.
This is a voluntary organization that will make mistakes, no group is
perfect, nor can it please everyone all the time.
It also sounds like you have judged and condemned dlv as guilty, as if
its an absolute truth that dlv is already a failure by your standards of
dates. It is very regretable that you feel that way.
Others who ARE going to dlv 04 and ARE currently planning events for dlv
04 are trying hard to maintain more optomistic and positive thoughts,
and attitudes, and are trying to do their best to make dlv an enjoyable
event for everyone who attends. They WILL overcome whatever problems
come up in the planning.
.... And most of all these people WILL MAKE dlv 04 a GREAT event!
To them, I will give my greatest appreciation and thank you for the
thankless job that they do. Plus a few galiano shots if they want it
also!
These people (unlike your opinion) will take these concerns as positive
things and make positive changes and corrections to their events that
they are planning to make it better and more enjoyable to those that can
make it to dlv.
>I've been part of an organizing committee within my company.
OK. Let's see YOU put your experienced walk to your talk, and put your
name down and start getting involved in planning NEW activities to make
DLV to more of what you feel should be the right thing to do to make DLV
better.
I would like to see how spectacular your continued planning of events at
every dlv each year will be, having 65%+ of all dlv attendees in
attendance.
----------
(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)
----------
I have a few concerns....
>I do not want to offend anybody on the organizing committee but....
Who or whom is in this 'committee' you are refering to?
>I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
>what is best for DLV
What is your 'best for DLV' ?
>I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
>what is best for DLV but what was convenient for 15 members of the
>organizing committee. If the goal of the organizing committee is to
>slow growth, and in fact shrink attendance, these dates are
>outstanding!
This is a very sarcastic negative remark to make, after the dates have
been set.
You are accusing others (15) who voted of organized malicious intent on
planning to slow down the growth of dlv. Where's your proof?
We could have used your 'expertise' and 'insite' when deciding what
dates for dlv. Where were you during the discussions?
If you were late in joining because of work or pc problems, then its
your fault.
You have no right to blame those that voted on the dates that were
presented, and took part in the decision process, accusing them of
intent, without showing some sort of proof of your accusations.
Those that votes could have just chose a date (dates stated by anyone
during the discussion phase), that works the best for themselves. Whats
wrong with that? How does this become a conspiracy?
>I am offended by some of the responses of those on the committee. I
>have never felt more disenfranchised with a group that I felt so very
>close to just a few months ago. Regarding the responses of "focus on
>the positives", I find this simply a cop out. It's nothing more than a
>cop out to stifle the discussion. But when a discussion has occurred and
>responses from the committee is such as "shut up and deal with", it's
>very discouraging. Why not just be honest and say "your opinion doesn't
>matter, go away".
Discussion is what it is, an open forum, where everyone has a chance to
speak their mind, making good or bad comments. Everyone's opinion
matters and Annie has stressed this from the very beginning, and has
worked hard to keep this forum quite open, and presented everyone's
comments to everyone.
You are doing what you just complained about...calling other people's
concerns about 'focus on the positives' as a 'cop out'. You are saying
to these people's concerns as 'your opinion doesn't matter, go away' and
'shut up and deal with it' because you are offended by it.
What is your solution?
What exactly do you mean by 'cop out'?
You are also saying to everyone to 'shut up and deal with' the problem dates.
>When you try to twist peoples opinions and concerns into something they
>are not, it is a simple attempt to avoid the discussion. Same thing
>goes for the "you don't like it, start your own" comments. It's nothing
>more than a cop out to stifle the discussion.
Everyone will get a slightly different interpretation and understanding
of what someone wrote. Mis-understanding what was written is quite
possible, because of the way it was written, and the interpretation can
be a honest understanding of what was written and NOT twisting someones
opinions and concerns. Understanding what what was written would be
mostly the same for everyone or different for everyone. How is this an
attempt to avoid the discussion?
You again are doing the same thing you are complaining about, twisting
peoples opinions with your view (cop out - avoid discussion) of what
they are saying. That opinion or concern "you don't like it, start your
own" may have originially meant something else (other than a cop out)
that is related to the discussion, or else why add it to that
discussion?... and NOT an attempt to avoid the discussion.
What makes your view on this the only correct one?
Comments by those that said this?
>What people are voicing are not negatives but concerns.
OK, they state their concerns.
Some are positive, but when there are concerns, it tends to be negative
(contray to what you state) as in something wrong or issues that need to
be addressed that wasn't earlier.
Then the issue becomes: What do we do then about their concerns?
Do we:
Keep the focus and expand and concentrate on criticism and negative comments?
Attack everyone and have everyone discouraged and have bad feelings and
attitudes?
Do nothing and just have everyone complain about the organizers of any
event, about everything that event is disagreeable to them, in their
world?
Provide no positive alternatives or changes and provide just negative
comments or problems?
You have stated that trying to improve things and positively better
events to make them more enjoyable is WRONG because 'focusing on the
positive is a cop out'!
In fact positively changing the dates away from Mother's Day weekend
would also be wrong to you, for the same reasons.
>I think the organizing committee will come to regret these dates.
I'm sorry, but those trying to plan dlv activities are only human, and
in this case of the dates, may not have made this decision to everyones
liking, and will probably make mistakes in the future. They will learn
from the mistakes, re-evaluate, make adjustments and move on, learning
from their mistakes.
This is a voluntary organization that will make mistakes, no group is
perfect, nor can it please everyone all the time.
It also sounds like you have judged and condemned dlv as guilty, as if
its an absolute truth that dlv is already a failure by your standards of
dates. It is very regretable that you feel that way.
Others who ARE going to dlv 04 and ARE currently planning events for dlv
04 are trying hard to maintain more optomistic and positive thoughts,
and attitudes, and are trying to do their best to make dlv an enjoyable
event for everyone who attends. They WILL overcome whatever problems
come up in the planning.
.... And most of all these people WILL MAKE dlv 04 a GREAT event!
To them, I will give my greatest appreciation and thank you for the
thankless job that they do. Plus a few galiano shots if they want it
also!
These people (unlike your opinion) will take these concerns as positive
things and make positive changes and corrections to their events that
they are planning to make it better and more enjoyable to those that can
make it to dlv.
>I've been part of an organizing committee within my company.
OK. Let's see YOU put your experienced walk to your talk, and put your
name down and start getting involved in planning NEW activities to make
DLV to more of what you feel should be the right thing to do to make DLV
better.
I would like to see how spectacular your continued planning of events at
every dlv each year will be, having 65%+ of all dlv attendees in
attendance.
----------
(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)
- External Poster
- External
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm
My last word on Mother's Day
by External Poster » Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:47 pm
This posting is from: Leah
----------
It is a shame that some will not be able to attend this year's
DLV........ I have already stated that in another email but it is
difficult to come up with a date that is good for everyone.
I do have to agree that the week leading into Mother's Day may perhaps
preclude some extra potential attendees other than the normal fallout
from the given dates each year due to commitments, etc.
With that thought, is there any creedance for future DLV's to setting
the date in stone each year to be the week away from Mother's Day on
either side of the convention, wherever that may fall year to year? If
M'Day falls on the last Sunday of the convention that shouldn't be a
problem either I suspect.
There of course always is the risk that an event organizer won't be able
to make it in a given year but I guess that will have to be dealt with
to cover the event.
I want to say that I whole-heartedly agree that preference should be
given to those that actually run events and plan the week, and those who
have been long-time supporters of DLV. It is pretty much that way in
all facets of life. If they are willing to give up that option and roll
the dice then perhaps a set date each year is viable.
I also want to say that I do not vote on any timeframe measures or
anything involving such issues for Diva. I believe if Annie checked her
logs she could verify that so I don't want to seem like I am trying to
slant something in anybody's or mine favor. The dates of DLV usually
don't matter to me one way or the other because I live in Vegas but I am
just trying to come up with something that is workable for everyone.
Enough from me.....I got housework to do!!
Leah
----------
(This posting was entered by Leah, an external user of MyDLV.)
----------
It is a shame that some will not be able to attend this year's
DLV........ I have already stated that in another email but it is
difficult to come up with a date that is good for everyone.
I do have to agree that the week leading into Mother's Day may perhaps
preclude some extra potential attendees other than the normal fallout
from the given dates each year due to commitments, etc.
With that thought, is there any creedance for future DLV's to setting
the date in stone each year to be the week away from Mother's Day on
either side of the convention, wherever that may fall year to year? If
M'Day falls on the last Sunday of the convention that shouldn't be a
problem either I suspect.
There of course always is the risk that an event organizer won't be able
to make it in a given year but I guess that will have to be dealt with
to cover the event.
I want to say that I whole-heartedly agree that preference should be
given to those that actually run events and plan the week, and those who
have been long-time supporters of DLV. It is pretty much that way in
all facets of life. If they are willing to give up that option and roll
the dice then perhaps a set date each year is viable.
I also want to say that I do not vote on any timeframe measures or
anything involving such issues for Diva. I believe if Annie checked her
logs she could verify that so I don't want to seem like I am trying to
slant something in anybody's or mine favor. The dates of DLV usually
don't matter to me one way or the other because I live in Vegas but I am
just trying to come up with something that is workable for everyone.
Enough from me.....I got housework to do!!
Leah
----------
(This posting was entered by Leah, an external user of MyDLV.)
- External Poster
- External
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm
My last word on Mother's Day
by External Poster » Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:02 am
This posting is from: Gina Richards
----------
Ladies and Friends,
Can I state for the record that there is no organized conspiracy to do
anything negative for DLV.
Second can we please stop the comments about Mother's Day, that I
started not realizing how vicious this conversation wiould become. I
can say nothing but the best of things about Annie and the rest of the
ladies that bust their respective bottoms to put on this wonderful
vacation for us all.
Love ya,
Gina
>From: "kumiko yvonne watanabe" <dlvdisc@geekbabe.com>
>Reply-To: dlvdisc@geekbabe.com
>To: dlvdisc@geekbabe.com
>CC: kywatanabe@yahoo.com
>Subject: Re: My last word on Mother's Day
>Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:47:49 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I have a few concerns....
>
> >I do not want to offend anybody on the organizing committee but....
>
>Who or whom is in this 'committee' you are refering to?
>
> >I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
> >what is best for DLV
>
>What is your 'best for DLV' ?
>
> >I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
> >what is best for DLV but what was convenient for 15 members of the
> >organizing committee. If the goal of the organizing committee is to
> >slow growth, and in fact shrink attendance, these dates are
> >outstanding!
>
>This is a very sarcastic negative remark to make, after the dates have
>been set.
>
>You are accusing others (15) who voted of organized malicious intent on
>planning to slow down the growth of dlv. Where's your proof?
>
>We could have used your 'expertise' and 'insite' when deciding what
>dates for dlv. Where were you during the discussions?
>
>If you were late in joining because of work or pc problems, then its
>your fault.
>
>You have no right to blame those that voted on the dates that were
>presented, and took part in the decision process, accusing them of
>intent, without showing some sort of proof of your accusations.
>
>Those that votes could have just chose a date (dates stated by anyone
>during the discussion phase), that works the best for themselves. Whats
>wrong with that? How does this become a conspiracy?
>
> >I am offended by some of the responses of those on the committee. I
> >have never felt more disenfranchised with a group that I felt so very
> >close to just a few months ago. Regarding the responses of "focus on
> >the positives", I find this simply a cop out. It's nothing more than a
> >cop out to stifle the discussion. But when a discussion has occurred and
> >responses from the committee is such as "shut up and deal with", it's
> >very discouraging. Why not just be honest and say "your opinion doesn't
> >matter, go away".
>
>Discussion is what it is, an open forum, where everyone has a chance to
>speak their mind, making good or bad comments. Everyone's opinion
>matters and Annie has stressed this from the very beginning, and has
>worked hard to keep this forum quite open, and presented everyone's
>comments to everyone.
>
>You are doing what you just complained about...calling other people's
>concerns about 'focus on the positives' as a 'cop out'. You are saying
>to these people's concerns as 'your opinion doesn't matter, go away' and
>'shut up and deal with it' because you are offended by it.
>
>What is your solution?
>
>What exactly do you mean by 'cop out'?
>
>You are also saying to everyone to 'shut up and deal with' the problem
>dates.
>
> >When you try to twist peoples opinions and concerns into something they
> >are not, it is a simple attempt to avoid the discussion. Same thing
> >goes for the "you don't like it, start your own" comments. It's nothing
> >more than a cop out to stifle the discussion.
>
>Everyone will get a slightly different interpretation and understanding
>of what someone wrote. Mis-understanding what was written is quite
>possible, because of the way it was written, and the interpretation can
>be a honest understanding of what was written and NOT twisting someones
>opinions and concerns. Understanding what what was written would be
>mostly the same for everyone or different for everyone. How is this an
>attempt to avoid the discussion?
>
>You again are doing the same thing you are complaining about, twisting
>peoples opinions with your view (cop out - avoid discussion) of what
>they are saying. That opinion or concern "you don't like it, start your
>own" may have originially meant something else (other than a cop out)
>that is related to the discussion, or else why add it to that
>discussion?... and NOT an attempt to avoid the discussion.
>
>What makes your view on this the only correct one?
>
>Comments by those that said this?
>
> >What people are voicing are not negatives but concerns.
>
>OK, they state their concerns.
>
>Some are positive, but when there are concerns, it tends to be negative
>(contray to what you state) as in something wrong or issues that need to
>be addressed that wasn't earlier.
>
>Then the issue becomes: What do we do then about their concerns?
>
>Do we:
>
>Keep the focus and expand and concentrate on criticism and negative
>comments?
>
>Attack everyone and have everyone discouraged and have bad feelings and
>attitudes?
>
>Do nothing and just have everyone complain about the organizers of any
>event, about everything that event is disagreeable to them, in their
>world?
>
>Provide no positive alternatives or changes and provide just negative
>comments or problems?
>
>You have stated that trying to improve things and positively better
>events to make them more enjoyable is WRONG because 'focusing on the
>positive is a cop out'!
>
>In fact positively changing the dates away from Mother's Day weekend
>would also be wrong to you, for the same reasons.
>
> >I think the organizing committee will come to regret these dates.
>
>I'm sorry, but those trying to plan dlv activities are only human, and
>in this case of the dates, may not have made this decision to everyones
>liking, and will probably make mistakes in the future. They will learn
>from the mistakes, re-evaluate, make adjustments and move on, learning
>from their mistakes.
>
>This is a voluntary organization that will make mistakes, no group is
>perfect, nor can it please everyone all the time.
>
>It also sounds like you have judged and condemned dlv as guilty, as if
>its an absolute truth that dlv is already a failure by your standards of
>dates. It is very regretable that you feel that way.
>
>Others who ARE going to dlv 04 and ARE currently planning events for dlv
>04 are trying hard to maintain more optomistic and positive thoughts,
>and attitudes, and are trying to do their best to make dlv an enjoyable
>event for everyone who attends. They WILL overcome whatever problems
>come up in the planning.
>
>.... And most of all these people WILL MAKE dlv 04 a GREAT event!
>
>To them, I will give my greatest appreciation and thank you for the
>thankless job that they do. Plus a few galiano shots if they want it
>also!
>
>These people (unlike your opinion) will take these concerns as positive
>things and make positive changes and corrections to their events that
>they are planning to make it better and more enjoyable to those that can
>make it to dlv.
>
> >I've been part of an organizing committee within my company.
>
>OK. Let's see YOU put your experienced walk to your talk, and put your
>name down and start getting involved in planning NEW activities to make
>DLV to more of what you feel should be the right thing to do to make DLV
>better.
>
>I would like to see how spectacular your continued planning of events at
>every dlv each year will be, having 65%+ of all dlv attendees in
>attendance.
_________________________________________________________________
Instant message in style with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE!
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----------
(This posting was entered by Gina Richards, an external user of MyDLV.)
----------
Ladies and Friends,
Can I state for the record that there is no organized conspiracy to do
anything negative for DLV.
Second can we please stop the comments about Mother's Day, that I
started not realizing how vicious this conversation wiould become. I
can say nothing but the best of things about Annie and the rest of the
ladies that bust their respective bottoms to put on this wonderful
vacation for us all.
Love ya,
Gina
>From: "kumiko yvonne watanabe" <dlvdisc@geekbabe.com>
>Reply-To: dlvdisc@geekbabe.com
>To: dlvdisc@geekbabe.com
>CC: kywatanabe@yahoo.com
>Subject: Re: My last word on Mother's Day
>Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:47:49 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I have a few concerns....
>
> >I do not want to offend anybody on the organizing committee but....
>
>Who or whom is in this 'committee' you are refering to?
>
> >I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
> >what is best for DLV
>
>What is your 'best for DLV' ?
>
> >I am convinced the DLV organizing committee reached a decision on not
> >what is best for DLV but what was convenient for 15 members of the
> >organizing committee. If the goal of the organizing committee is to
> >slow growth, and in fact shrink attendance, these dates are
> >outstanding!
>
>This is a very sarcastic negative remark to make, after the dates have
>been set.
>
>You are accusing others (15) who voted of organized malicious intent on
>planning to slow down the growth of dlv. Where's your proof?
>
>We could have used your 'expertise' and 'insite' when deciding what
>dates for dlv. Where were you during the discussions?
>
>If you were late in joining because of work or pc problems, then its
>your fault.
>
>You have no right to blame those that voted on the dates that were
>presented, and took part in the decision process, accusing them of
>intent, without showing some sort of proof of your accusations.
>
>Those that votes could have just chose a date (dates stated by anyone
>during the discussion phase), that works the best for themselves. Whats
>wrong with that? How does this become a conspiracy?
>
> >I am offended by some of the responses of those on the committee. I
> >have never felt more disenfranchised with a group that I felt so very
> >close to just a few months ago. Regarding the responses of "focus on
> >the positives", I find this simply a cop out. It's nothing more than a
> >cop out to stifle the discussion. But when a discussion has occurred and
> >responses from the committee is such as "shut up and deal with", it's
> >very discouraging. Why not just be honest and say "your opinion doesn't
> >matter, go away".
>
>Discussion is what it is, an open forum, where everyone has a chance to
>speak their mind, making good or bad comments. Everyone's opinion
>matters and Annie has stressed this from the very beginning, and has
>worked hard to keep this forum quite open, and presented everyone's
>comments to everyone.
>
>You are doing what you just complained about...calling other people's
>concerns about 'focus on the positives' as a 'cop out'. You are saying
>to these people's concerns as 'your opinion doesn't matter, go away' and
>'shut up and deal with it' because you are offended by it.
>
>What is your solution?
>
>What exactly do you mean by 'cop out'?
>
>You are also saying to everyone to 'shut up and deal with' the problem
>dates.
>
> >When you try to twist peoples opinions and concerns into something they
> >are not, it is a simple attempt to avoid the discussion. Same thing
> >goes for the "you don't like it, start your own" comments. It's nothing
> >more than a cop out to stifle the discussion.
>
>Everyone will get a slightly different interpretation and understanding
>of what someone wrote. Mis-understanding what was written is quite
>possible, because of the way it was written, and the interpretation can
>be a honest understanding of what was written and NOT twisting someones
>opinions and concerns. Understanding what what was written would be
>mostly the same for everyone or different for everyone. How is this an
>attempt to avoid the discussion?
>
>You again are doing the same thing you are complaining about, twisting
>peoples opinions with your view (cop out - avoid discussion) of what
>they are saying. That opinion or concern "you don't like it, start your
>own" may have originially meant something else (other than a cop out)
>that is related to the discussion, or else why add it to that
>discussion?... and NOT an attempt to avoid the discussion.
>
>What makes your view on this the only correct one?
>
>Comments by those that said this?
>
> >What people are voicing are not negatives but concerns.
>
>OK, they state their concerns.
>
>Some are positive, but when there are concerns, it tends to be negative
>(contray to what you state) as in something wrong or issues that need to
>be addressed that wasn't earlier.
>
>Then the issue becomes: What do we do then about their concerns?
>
>Do we:
>
>Keep the focus and expand and concentrate on criticism and negative
>comments?
>
>Attack everyone and have everyone discouraged and have bad feelings and
>attitudes?
>
>Do nothing and just have everyone complain about the organizers of any
>event, about everything that event is disagreeable to them, in their
>world?
>
>Provide no positive alternatives or changes and provide just negative
>comments or problems?
>
>You have stated that trying to improve things and positively better
>events to make them more enjoyable is WRONG because 'focusing on the
>positive is a cop out'!
>
>In fact positively changing the dates away from Mother's Day weekend
>would also be wrong to you, for the same reasons.
>
> >I think the organizing committee will come to regret these dates.
>
>I'm sorry, but those trying to plan dlv activities are only human, and
>in this case of the dates, may not have made this decision to everyones
>liking, and will probably make mistakes in the future. They will learn
>from the mistakes, re-evaluate, make adjustments and move on, learning
>from their mistakes.
>
>This is a voluntary organization that will make mistakes, no group is
>perfect, nor can it please everyone all the time.
>
>It also sounds like you have judged and condemned dlv as guilty, as if
>its an absolute truth that dlv is already a failure by your standards of
>dates. It is very regretable that you feel that way.
>
>Others who ARE going to dlv 04 and ARE currently planning events for dlv
>04 are trying hard to maintain more optomistic and positive thoughts,
>and attitudes, and are trying to do their best to make dlv an enjoyable
>event for everyone who attends. They WILL overcome whatever problems
>come up in the planning.
>
>.... And most of all these people WILL MAKE dlv 04 a GREAT event!
>
>To them, I will give my greatest appreciation and thank you for the
>thankless job that they do. Plus a few galiano shots if they want it
>also!
>
>These people (unlike your opinion) will take these concerns as positive
>things and make positive changes and corrections to their events that
>they are planning to make it better and more enjoyable to those that can
>make it to dlv.
>
> >I've been part of an organizing committee within my company.
>
>OK. Let's see YOU put your experienced walk to your talk, and put your
>name down and start getting involved in planning NEW activities to make
>DLV to more of what you feel should be the right thing to do to make DLV
>better.
>
>I would like to see how spectacular your continued planning of events at
>every dlv each year will be, having 65%+ of all dlv attendees in
>attendance.
_________________________________________________________________
Instant message in style with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE!
http://msnmessenger-download.com
----------
(This posting was entered by Gina Richards, an external user of MyDLV.)
- External Poster
- External
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm
My last word on Mother's Day
by External Poster » Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:48 pm
This posting is from: Densie
----------
> To them, I will give my greatest appreciation and thank you for the
> thankless job that they do. Plus a few galiano shots if they want it
> also!
Oh geez...here I was feeling mellow this morning and now you're
threatening us with Galiano [sic]!
...which reminds me...Annie, why isn't the Galiano Challenge on the list
of activities yet? I'll host it if you'll pick the date. You know how
much I hate picking dates. [ Insert smartass comment here ]
-densie
----------
(This posting was entered by Densie, an external user of MyDLV.)
----------
> To them, I will give my greatest appreciation and thank you for the
> thankless job that they do. Plus a few galiano shots if they want it
> also!
Oh geez...here I was feeling mellow this morning and now you're
threatening us with Galiano [sic]!
...which reminds me...Annie, why isn't the Galiano Challenge on the list
of activities yet? I'll host it if you'll pick the date. You know how
much I hate picking dates. [ Insert smartass comment here ]
-densie
----------
(This posting was entered by Densie, an external user of MyDLV.)
- External Poster
- External
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm
My last word on Mother's Day
by External Poster » Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:09 am
This posting is from: MissyMarianne
----------
Yeah... you tell 'em Gina.. I agree with you..
Miissy Marianne
----------
(This posting was entered by MissyMarianne, an external user of MyDLV.)
----------
Yeah... you tell 'em Gina.. I agree with you..
Miissy Marianne
----------
(This posting was entered by MissyMarianne, an external user of MyDLV.)
- External Poster
- External
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm
My last word on Mother's Day
by External Poster » Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:17 pm
This posting is from: Tina Tawdre
----------
And I thought I started the comments about Mother's Day. :-)
No, there's no conspiracy<grin>, but I do think there needs to be more
publicity about proposed dates to everyone in DLV and longer and later
decision cycles. Proposing next year's dates in the immediate afterglow
of the current DLV feels good, but really isn't necessary. Not
everybody goes online every day, or even every week, to check the latest
details about DLV scheduling , or have a clear preference about dates,
particularly when its 9-10 months away. Some people actually do go on
vacation without their laptops, or go out of the country, or have a
crash, or just get busy. It takes more effort and more time to pierce
through all that.
The depth of emotion many people (on all sides of this issue) feel about
this has been reflected in the correspondence for the last month and
clearly shows how important this date was to the scheduling process. In
my opinion, the ORG committee (of which I am a member) didn't
sufficiently recognize that fact this year. I wish all the energy that
has been directed towards telling people they should have spoken up two
weeks (or whatever) sooner had instead been redirected towards
reconsidering the basic scheduling decision. Too much time defending
the process, or proposing band-aids on a bad choice, and not enough time
fixing what's broken, IMHO.
A few recommendations for Next Year:
1). Avoid Mother's Day (well, duh)
2). Don't be in such a rush to set the dates 10 or 11 months in advance.
3). Publicize the planned dates longer and later in the year to all
DLV members. Solicit more feedback.
4). Have a longer minimum voting period on non-emergency items
(minimum 1 week). Not everyone is online every day.
Can't promise that this is *my* last word on Mother's Day, although I
have realistically given up on convincing the ORG committee to change
the dates. Hope you'll find these comments constructive.
Best to all,
-- Tina
----------
(This posting was entered by Tina Tawdre, an external user of MyDLV.)
----------
And I thought I started the comments about Mother's Day. :-)
No, there's no conspiracy<grin>, but I do think there needs to be more
publicity about proposed dates to everyone in DLV and longer and later
decision cycles. Proposing next year's dates in the immediate afterglow
of the current DLV feels good, but really isn't necessary. Not
everybody goes online every day, or even every week, to check the latest
details about DLV scheduling , or have a clear preference about dates,
particularly when its 9-10 months away. Some people actually do go on
vacation without their laptops, or go out of the country, or have a
crash, or just get busy. It takes more effort and more time to pierce
through all that.
The depth of emotion many people (on all sides of this issue) feel about
this has been reflected in the correspondence for the last month and
clearly shows how important this date was to the scheduling process. In
my opinion, the ORG committee (of which I am a member) didn't
sufficiently recognize that fact this year. I wish all the energy that
has been directed towards telling people they should have spoken up two
weeks (or whatever) sooner had instead been redirected towards
reconsidering the basic scheduling decision. Too much time defending
the process, or proposing band-aids on a bad choice, and not enough time
fixing what's broken, IMHO.
A few recommendations for Next Year:
1). Avoid Mother's Day (well, duh)
2). Don't be in such a rush to set the dates 10 or 11 months in advance.
3). Publicize the planned dates longer and later in the year to all
DLV members. Solicit more feedback.
4). Have a longer minimum voting period on non-emergency items
(minimum 1 week). Not everyone is online every day.
Can't promise that this is *my* last word on Mother's Day, although I
have realistically given up on convincing the ORG committee to change
the dates. Hope you'll find these comments constructive.
Best to all,
-- Tina
----------
(This posting was entered by Tina Tawdre, an external user of MyDLV.)
- External Poster
- External
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm
My last word on Mother's Day
by External Poster » Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:15 am
This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
----------
I also state for the record, that there is no organized conspiracy by
the organizing group planning dlv. Annie and many many others who have
given their love and time to make dlv happen deserve much more
appreciation and thanks than what has been shown recently.
I apologize if I offended others with what I wrote and have turned the
'flames' (old bbs term for 'bitching') off. I just got upset and felt
strongly to defend those organizing events, and respond to worsening and
continued stream of negative comments and accusations about the
potential failures of dates and certian events. It must be very
discouranging for those planning activities, especially to Annie.
DLV is supposed to be a time of fun on vacation, not some forced march
to attend a convention. I also would like to see this negative energy be
turned to enthusiasm for planning dlv events.
We still need activities for the evenings, and more activities if the
dates for dlv get extended.
If the dates do get extended, would it be possible spread out what is
main events that have traditionally set for the weekend of dlv for those
that can make it only for that earlier time period? ... or have two of
them. For those that can make the regular dates will be treated to
both, and probably see different people at both events.
----------
(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)
----------
I also state for the record, that there is no organized conspiracy by
the organizing group planning dlv. Annie and many many others who have
given their love and time to make dlv happen deserve much more
appreciation and thanks than what has been shown recently.
I apologize if I offended others with what I wrote and have turned the
'flames' (old bbs term for 'bitching') off. I just got upset and felt
strongly to defend those organizing events, and respond to worsening and
continued stream of negative comments and accusations about the
potential failures of dates and certian events. It must be very
discouranging for those planning activities, especially to Annie.
DLV is supposed to be a time of fun on vacation, not some forced march
to attend a convention. I also would like to see this negative energy be
turned to enthusiasm for planning dlv events.
We still need activities for the evenings, and more activities if the
dates for dlv get extended.
If the dates do get extended, would it be possible spread out what is
main events that have traditionally set for the weekend of dlv for those
that can make it only for that earlier time period? ... or have two of
them. For those that can make the regular dates will be treated to
both, and probably see different people at both events.
----------
(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)
- External Poster
- External
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm
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