No delaying, no, not nun

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This posting is from: Mary Beth
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I have to agree with those who think that "nun night" is a spectacularly
bad idea.

Associating with the general public is one thing, making a spectacle of
oneself is quite another. If this were a Halloween party or gay pride
festival event (such as what the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence do)
then it might be funny, but to deride a religion which many people take
very seriously is tasteless at best and quite offensive at worst. I vote
no on nun night.

Mary Beth Cooper

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This posting is from: Michelle Jenkins
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Hi,

While I am still not entirely sure that Densie really intends (intended)
to follow through with the Nuns in Casino adventure, it has been
interesting (very interesting to say the least) to see the commentary on
the proposal and from who the comments are coming from.

I find it fascinating in so much that as a Cder part of the whole deal
of passing is to be as innocuous and transparent as possible. That is,
blend in like a chameleon and not be noticed. Much of the now famous
policy document talks of this as the concept for the guidelines.

OTOH so many of the TG community really like to be out and show
themselves off, and rather than blend in ensure that they attract
attention in one way or another. I guess in part it comes down to
individual personalities and mine is definitely not that outward,
especially when in drag.

The nun thing, the hearse ride and even the Flash and Trash party all
seem to me to be pushing the limit. While I'm prepared to accept that
any or all of these can or may occur, I can't really see myself taking a
major part in any of them.

But it does raise the question as to where the line is drawn about
acceptability.

If wearing a nuns outfit into casino and gambling, drinking and smoking
offends some, or might offend many, as the case may be, then why isn't
just wearing the nuns costume equally offensive whether to a mainstream
location or to a private party.

I can see that all of the above could and probably would/will be real
hoots for those that participate. They are all things I could imagine
doing in my younger years, dressed as a boy, girl or maybe even naked in
the coffin! :-) but are any of them really activities that we should
have at an event that is clearly getting quite popular and populous (ie
lots of people). The probability of them getting out of hand is high and
the consequences are potentially fairly significant.

Having said that:

- What is the difference between some of the above and girls dressing up
in their finery and going to the 4 Seasons for High Tea? To the casual
Joseph or Josephine Public us Tger's all look like a bunch of "kooks"
and we don't deserve any respect no matter what we dress like.

- What's the difference between limousines of Tger's arriving at the
valet stand of a hotel or at the Four Queens and taking photo shots with
passing by-standers, including hoisting (willing) valet attendants on to
their knees etc,

I tend to think that any outrageous activities likely to bring attention
to individuals or the group should be frowned upon. I'm still unsure
exactly where the line is / should be between acceptable and outrageous
but I can assure you, that like many others, I will know the difference
when I see it!

So you're clear on my position? Smoking, drinking, gambling nuns in a
casino is going to far but the nuns behaving appropriately? Well I'll
know when I see them there and I can give a definitive answer then!!!
:-)

Hugs
Michelle

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This posting is from: Densie
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> I read that ANY behavior in a public location, during DLV, that will
> bring negative or unwanted attention to the DLV group and TSs in
> general, is frowned upon.

How is anyone going to know that anyone in our group is T? Put on
some makeup, and glasses or whatever, and if your voice doesn't cut it,
then just drink and gamble and don't say anything. Maybe some SO's
would join us to make it even better.

> I for one see unwanted Law Inforcment/Security written all over this.

Since when was it illegal to impersonate a nun? And as for security, if
they ask us to leave, we go. I wouldn't dream of doing this in a hotel
that any of us were staying in.

> Maybe even News at 11 type of trouble.

That would be killer.

-densie

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This posting is from: Densie
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> Let's take a trip to the real world. The nun-fest (at least in a
> mainstream venue) has about as much chance of making it to the official
> DLV activity list as Rabbi Feldstein does of being elected Pope.

That hurts me, ANSI...but of course you're right. In fact, I wouldn't
be surprised if I ended up doing it by myself.

Most of the really fun ideas that I come up with end up buried in a
cloud of "I don't want to offend anyone", "There must be a rule against
that, if not then let's pass one", etc. People, as a whole, are not
much fun...but when you look at the flip side, that is the reason why
they are so easy to mindf**k.

> However (comma) I do think cruising the Strip in a hearse would
> be a lot of fun. :) :)

No problem, I can bring my coach. We will need to put a cap on this
event, though, because I need to know how to configure it. Three or
four can fit in the front seat, and I know that I can sit in the back
cross-legged and still have plenty of headroom, but will have to try to
put some cushions in there or something. It's not a limo style coach,
it's a 3-way, so probably six would be a good limit, or 8 if some people
wanted to look out the back. Too bad it doesn't have a sunroof..that
would be fun. Maybe I'll put one in, if I get time. Also, the only
windows that open are the front ones...I guess no one ever thought that
a rear passenger would want to open one.

I have a picture here, from before I started the restoration, so it's
ugly, but you can see how much room there is anyway.

http://www.admaero.com/temp/sitinhearse.jpg

-densie

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This posting is from: Densie
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> only is it insensitive to the religious minded

...whereas the religious minded are sensitive to us?

-densie

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This posting is from: Densie
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>We are not out to put our TG'ism in anyones face, and this whole nun
>thing is doing that very thing, IMO.

It certainly wasn't intended that way, but, my bad...the thought that
some of us nuns would be clocked never occured to me until some of you
brought it up. Guess I've been in the mainstream too long.

Any SO's interested?

-densie

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This posting is from: Densie
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> Been watching the thread on this one. Consider this for a second, if a
> group of skinheads dressed up as trannies and went bar hopping, would
> some of us be offended?

I would laugh my patootie off, but they would never have the nerve to do
it.

We are very special people, aren't we? Now if we could just learn not
to take everything so seriously...

-densie

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This posting is from: annie
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>> Let's take a trip to the real world. The nun-fest (at least in a
>> mainstream venue) has about as much chance of making it to the official
>> DLV activity list as Rabbi Feldstein does of being elected Pope.

> That hurts me, ANSI...but of course you're right. In fact, I wouldn't
> be surprised if I ended up doing it by myself.

Sorry, Densie, but I just don't see people jumping on the bandwagon over
this one. The momentum in this case is toward jumping in the way of the
bandwagon and not on it.

To be bluntly honest, I wish I would see the same level of enthusiasm
FOR any of our other proposed activities as I have seen against this
one.

> Most of the really fun ideas that I come up with end up buried in a
> cloud of "I don't want to offend anyone", ...

You had to leave Sunday morning, so you missed out on the aftermath of
some incidents that I and a few of the others had to deal with. There
were a number of cases, some arguably trivial I will admit, but some of
them quite valid, where some of our people sought attention in obvious
disregard of the others.

There is now some backlash, and some over-reaction. We have some people
who dress and act perfectly fine who are now thinking they need to tone
down their style, for whatever reason.

We have others who apparently think that anything at all that leans one
iota toward the kinky side, even if done under appropriate circumstances
such as a private residence or theater where RHPS is shown, should not
be allowed at DLV.

I daresay that if you had quietly gathered a small group of our people,
dressed in nun's attire, invaded a casino, and mindf*cked the normals,
everybody (even those who profess to be offended) would have gotten a
kick out of it and it would have been a major hit on the canonical list
of DLV lore.

> > However (comma) I do think cruising the Strip in a hearse would
> > be a lot of fun. :) :)

> No problem, I can bring my coach. We will need to put a cap on this

What I might suggest is that you soft-pedal this for now. Just show up
with it and invite whoever on the spot. That would make a hell of an
entrance to RHPS, not to mention a dynamite lead-off vehicle for the
limo tour. :)

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This posting is from: JoAnn
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The question of the day: Can this "nun" event fly "below the radar" and
not be associated with our DLV group??? If there is any hesitancy then
the answer to me is we need to error on the conservative side and say
"no" JoAnn

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This posting is from: MissyMarianne
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Missy Marianne <------- born & raised a Roman Catholic...

My view.... for what its worth.... is that we should not draw attention
to ourselves to make a point to put it in their faces. Leave the Nuns
alone ! There are other ways to have fun. Why pick on a Religion or
other group when they think its wrong to do so. It's just causing
trouble if you ask me and makes our group look bad.

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