Survey report continued ... written comments ...

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
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These are the general comments that were received with the DLV 2003
survey.

The activity suggestions and the restroom incident reports have been
sent to the DLVORG group to aid in the planning of next year's event.

I've taken the liberty of commenting in a few places, and I invite all
of you to follow up with comments and discussion as you see fit.
. . . . .

+1. DLV has helped me change my life by giving me the confidence to get
+out into the public and I'm grateful to the founding organizers! I've
+been twice now and have never had any acceptance problems with the
+general public and am coming to believe I pass well enough to get by in
+most situations that do not require really close contact!

Thanks. These are the things we definitely want to hear. If you think
that DLV has been a positive influence in your life, please let us know.

+I think the people who have problems bring them on themselves.

For the most part I would agree with that. There are some who are in the
process of climbing up the learning curve of public exposure, and they
will stumble and fall back a few times.

It's those who know better that I have problems with. :(
. . . . .

+2. As far as entainer of the year goes, I think the only one that was a
+bit iffy was Stephanie. IMO I thought she was a little raw and I
+noticed some of the seemed a little uncomfortable, but like I said it
+is just my opinion.

I hear you, but remember, it is a lounge show in an adult venue in Las
Vegas, and by definition, those can sometimes be blue. Each entertainer
has his or her own style. Some are squeaky-clean, and others can make a
sailor blush.
. . . . .

+3. Issues that need further discussion:

+- Scheduling of Late Night & Early Next day activities

We're very aware that there were some people that had some scheduling
issues with not only this, but with many of our activities. Some were
not aware that certain activities did indeed occur at the same time,
or that some things were intended as alternatives, such as HM's on
Thursday and the Jubilee show.

We've never envisioned that anybody will ever try to attend everything
that's going on at DLV.

As we continue to grow, our number of activities will most likely grow
and some of our activities will become more and more tightly scheduled.

Beginning last year we've even seen two or more activities occur at
once. Everybody has to make their personal choices as to what they want
to do, according to their own interestes and priorities.

We will do what we can to avoid scheduling the popular activities in a
way that causes problems, but Las Vegas is open 24 * 7 and every hour of
every day is available for our activities, should our people plan them.

+- Pre payment for late comers

This will be addressed in the ORG group, along with related topics.

+- Rest room and related issues and how to deal with the miscreats that
+can't & won't play by the rules

I've commented a few lines below on this as well as some related items.
. . . . .

+4. As always, I found out just how much I miss my DLV friends when I see
+them each year. Great people, great time, thanks.

Yes, we have the finest people in the known universe! For some reason,
DLV tends to attract them. :)
. . . . .

+5. The opportunity to be out for 24 hours a day for an entire week has
+helped me develop confidence that would not have been possible
+otherwise! It has also enabled me to make friends with others from
+throughout the US and foreign lands that would not have been possible
+otherwise. Thanks!
. . . . .

+6. dress, or lack of, and "call attention to me" attitude of some
+participents was disturbing!

I'm going to speak (type) very freely on this issue, so please excuse
me if I say something that somebody does not like.

First of all, we are talking about a VERY small minority who did these
things. The dress and behavior of the overwhelming majority of DLV
people was not only appropriate, but commendable.

Most of our people put forth a very good impression of themselves, DLV,
and the t* community.

Unfortunately a few of our people caused such a scene and attracted so
much of the wrong kind of attention, that it reflected very badly on our
group as a whole, and embarrassed the heck out of many of the others in
our group who were present. And yes, a few very unfortunate incidents
were elicited by this type of behavior. :(

Let me assure you that it is you, the majority, those of you who choose
to dress and behave properly, that we are interested in having back for
DLV's to come.

DLV is and always has been based on reality and not fantasy. It's not a
place to flaunt transgenderism, or to test the limits on what can be
worn or done in mainstream public.

DLV is also not the place for somebody, or some group, who insists on
being the center of attention, or pulls this in-your-face interaction
with the public nonsense.

No, we're not gonna have a nun with a ruler measuring skirt length, but
from this day forward, inappropriate dress or behavior at mainstream DLV
activities will not be tolerated, period.

There most likely will be, however, one or more DLV activities where
just about anything goes for dress. Yes, these will happen in locations
where such outfits will be appropriate.

Moving forward, I would like to see our emphasis be on preventing
incidents, as opposed to hashing and rehashing history.

This topic is being addressed by the ORG group, and I can assure you
that such behavior will be most unwelcome at DLV's to come.

The numbers on the survey and the comments received clearly indicate
that no damage, other than some embarrassment and some bruised egos, has
been done by these incidents. Let's move forward!
. . . . .

+7. Hi, I attended Diva with my SO and we had a good time because we
+went to only the events which interested us. We had a much better time
+doing things mainstream and away from the main group. But, we planned
+it this way! Your program was fine for the attendee's it targets! We
+had a great time meeting some of our sisters who we had only
+corresponded with til now, and getting away doing girl things on our
+own together, we like that the most! We would come back again under the
+same circumstances.

This is always an option with DLV, and you will always be able to pick
and choose the activities you want to do, and don't want to do. Unlike
some events, you won't be paying for those things you choose to skip.

Some people try to do everything on the DLV calendar, others just show
up for one or two things. It's each to his/her own and it's intended to
be that way.

+Only negative comment is....the food at the Sahara
+buffet is worth exactly what we paid...so only ate there once and
+figured it out!

I've heard rants and raves about the Sahara buffet.

I ate there several times this year, both with the with/without Tina
gang and by myself. I admit it ain't haute cuisine. However, it's there,
now, and cheap! Never did I have a meal that I didn't enjoy. If
something's totally 144, push it aside and go back for something else.
I've had much worse buffets, such as C**2 and Westward Ho(le).

+Also, I loved the show at Sasha's but must admit that
+my dinner was gross! dog chow! nada gooda! sorry thought you should
+Know.

I have to admit the food at Sasha's has slipped over the year. Mine was
very "ok" but not memorable. In fact, I'm hard pressed to remember
exactly what it was I had. :)
. . . . .

+8. Thank you!

You're very welcome. :)
. . . . .

+9. As far as meeting expectations, I only expect to have a good time,
+If i don't, it's my fault. The format is great. I can do as I please,
+attend scheduled functions, do the town on my own, or with other girls.

+It's all about choice, and the choice is mine. Thank you and all the
+volenteers who make this possible every year!!!

You're welcome. Yes, choice is a good thing. :)
. . . . .

+10. This is my 2nd visit to DLV and certainly will not be my last.

That's what we like to hear. Looking forward to having you back again.

+However, getting to the DLV events was still a problem. I think it
+would be beneficial if all the out of town girls were to stay at the
+same hotel. It might be easier to get rides to the events and it would
+also be helpful to have a another girl close by to get that very
+helpful "zip up " when your getting ready. Ideally if all the girls
+were on the same floor would add a certain "comradery" too. Looking
+forward to DLV next year already !

One recurrent discussion among the organizers is that of hotels. Yes,
countless times it's been brought up that there may be advantages to
concentrating our people in one hotel, but since this is a very loose
organization, and our people have widely divergent needs and wishes,
there's very little chance that will happen.

Some of our people have even remarked that they intentionally do not
stay where large groups of us will be staying, for whatever reasons.

This year we asked our people who would be needing rides to activities
to please stay at our suggested hotels. Only two people out of 50-some
indicated any difficulty getting rides, and from my observation there
were far more empty seats than there were people needing rides.

The major problem with ride sharing seems to be that the people sharing
rides have to operate on each others schedules, and that does not always
work.
. . . . .

+11. I understand Sasha's financial problems. However wed meal of $19
+w/o tip and w/o knowing price before ordering - ie menu +w/prices, it
+was a bit steep for what was served. Yes, show included, but anyone
+could come in to see show and not pay a thing.

Actually the (Michael Cagle) show was not included. Our people arranged
with Michael to perform separately, although Sasha's did provide the
stage and equipment. We passed the hat for Michael and Jason.

The Dinner Drag and Divas show was part of Sasha's regular lineup.

+Service was exellent and I tipped well, but meal price bothered
+me.

Ok, so noted. This will be brought up to the ORG group.

+Farewell on sun nite, was very short, left by 9-10pm, a bit
+disappointing for last night. Past DLVs, farewell went till 11-12ish.

Yes, this year I did notice more of a dropoff in attendance on Sunday
than I did last year.
. . . . .

+12. Thanks to all involved this year. Wonderful event, but shame, shame
+shame on all of the No-Shows!

Agreed. It's cool to cancel, if that's what you want to do or need to
do, but standing up your sisters is definitely un-cool!
. . . . .

+13. I did like the location of the High Tea.
. . . . .

+14. I wish when you signed up for events you would get an email
+confirmation or a printable screen to show what was requested. I
+promptly forgot what we signed up for. This caused a problem later.

This (both a confirmation screen and e-mail) will happen next year.
. . . . .

+15. If an event is going to be changed-moved, then someone should go to
+where the event was supposed to be held and notify anyone that shows
+up. Mainly what I speak of was the Friday night dance at Gypsy's.
+Showed up and no one was there only to find out the next day that
+everyone went to Belagio's instead. Paid $10 cover, turned around and
+left.

Yes, this can be a problem. I don't know the circumstances surrounding
why the activity was moved with no notice.

I know of one other time this happend, the other time being the buffet
dinner on Sunday (line was long, some people were short on time), and
yes, we do have to keep things like this in mind and make arrangements
for those who may show up only to find nobody from the group there.

I'll bring this up to the ORG group to keep in mind next year.

+Also, I requested a big sister but no one ever contacted me.

I would like the person who reported this to please contact me off line
(annie@annie.net) so we can follow up and see where the process broke
down. We are very concerned when things like this happen.

This coming year we will have one volunteer who will be handling the Big
Sister matching exclusively, so we will indeed have more attention to
this area.

+Other than that, I had a GREAT time. A few hic-ups are expected and I
+was not put out at all by the couple of problems. Just want to make
+sure you are aware of the two problems I did have. I will be back!
+GREAT JOB and thanks!

You're very welcome, and we do appreciate the heads up on the problems
you found. We'll do what we can to smooth these things out for DLV's
to come.
. . . . .

+16. Hugs to Annie and all of the volunteers... thank you... thank you!

And again, you're very welcome. We never get tired of hearing this, and
the thank-yous are read and truly appreciated, every last one of them!
. . . . .

+17. I was one of the 'no shows' for Wednesday's Hidden Woman wig
+styling, Wednesday's soiree at Sasha's, Friday's golf, although I did
+drop off the engraved prize at the course, and Saturday's SOM show.

+As I mentioned to several ladies on Tuesday nite at Flex, a major
+dental problem had developed and any attendance after Tuesday nite was
+to be problematical.

+For those of the cloth, mea culpa. mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. For
+everyone else, I apologize and will claim that pain overwhelmed my
+normally excellent manners.

Apology accepted. Hope your dental problems do not repeat in 2004.
. . . . .

+18. I had a wonderful time and would truly love to come back again.
+The only things that could prevent me from returning to DLV would be
+financial constraints and the lack of open vacation time. This year
+was unusual for me because my SO and I decided to take some of our
+vacation time separately. But generally we tend to do things together
+and she is not participatory in my cross dressing activities. although
+she is otherwise supportive. Future attendance in this or any other TG
+event would be conditioned on doing the same sort of thing with
+vacation time in the future.

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(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Leah
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Everything sounds very positive, which I was sure it would!

Hate to say it but no matter how many times it is mentioned I am sure we
will always get a couple of 'flaunters' and exhibitionists. I don't
think it would matter if we held Diva in Fargo, N.D. instead of Vegas
either. Maybe the only way to treat them is like internet trolls and
just ignore them.....dunno. Maybe they will get the message after a
bunch of 'sorry, someone is already sitting there' or 'I'm holding that
seat for someone' or the like. Don't really know what else we can do
other than to let them know in that manner that they are not necessarily
welcome to join the table or wherever. Sad situation I know but I just
don't know what else to do short of telling them bluntly to go change.
???

I have to join the bandwagon and say it distresses me also when this
happens, although unfortunately my Diva attendance was curtailed this
year and perhaps I just missed the incidents involved in the discussion.

A feeling of 'community' does not give one the right to cause potential
embarrassment to other attendees. I doubt most of the girls would wear
something of that nature if they were going out by themselves for
instance. In fact, I never liked the word 'community' relating to
transgendered. I will however, settle for 'common-ity' in that we are
all somewhat in the same boat. 'Don't wear a bowling shirt to a golf
banquet' is my bottom line message I suppose. <g>

I mentioned this once before but would like to say it again about the
nature of the shows and clubs that we attend. Of course you can expect
an appropriate show at the casinos but in the smaller, GLBT places
things may be a lot different....... more risque, same sex couples, etc.

I would like to see next year on the schedule that we make mention in
some fashion that there may be some of these type activities going on
around us at these establishments. We have people coming in from all
over and many first timers who possibly have not been to a GLBT
establishment and have no idea what to expect.

Although I think it is hardly prevalent....well, at least early in the
evening...... I still think we owe it to the attendees to give them all
of the info we can as to the nature of the establishment. This way
there are no surprises or reprisals. If I was more computer-savvy I
would make a page outlining the places that DLV frequents.....if anyone
would like to do it and this is acceptable with Annie I would be happy
to corroborate on it with you. Nothing fancy, just a one-liner about
each place.

Sorry for the low attendance at Gipsy but this really is not what I
would call a prime event. In the last two years I don't think I have
seen more than 20 there. Just looks like a lot of girls decided not to
go or found other places during the week they liked better. Or, just
stayed at Sasha's and went back to their hotel from there. I suspect
that Gipsy is the only place on the schedule where this might happen so
maybe roundng up your own groups might be beneficial in the future. I
also suspect.....after seeing the median age of the group......<g> that
a good percentage of us are not into techno rock and crowded clubs. I
miss Keys!!

Glad everyone had a great time!

Leah

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(This posting was entered by Leah, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
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> > +.. Mainly what I speak of was the Friday night dance at Gypsy's.
> > +Showed up and no one was there only to find out the next day that
> > +everyone went to Belagio's instead. Paid $10 cover, turned around and
> > +left.
>
> Not quite accurate, is it?
>
> I know some girls did go there.

I wouldn't know. That was about the time I got stuck in the elevator. :(

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(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
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> Everything sounds very positive, which I was sure it would!

Yes it was an outstanding success, and the survey rates it higher than
last year.

>Sad situation I know but I just don't know what else to do short of
>telling them bluntly to go change.

Maybe the best way *IS* to tell them very bluntly that their outfit
(or their attitude) is inappropriate.

This doesn't even have to be anything official ... and I think a bit of
peer pressure may be in order here. Let's get the word out that it is
very un-cool to embarrass your sisters.

>I doubt most of the girls would wear something of that nature if they
>were going out by themselves for instance.

This is very true, and I have not thought of it that way.

>I would like to see next year on the schedule that we make mention in
>some fashion that there may be some of these type activities going on
>around us at these establishments.

I would think that most people who come to DLV would know that bar and
lounge shows are often not rated PG-13, but yes, we could mention that
those easily offended may indeed be offended. This isn't really limited
to GLBT venues. Even our feature show on Saturday had nudity and the
"f-word" was used (appropriately, IMAO) during one act.

>If I was more computer-savvy I would make a page outlining the places
>that DLV frequents

Are you aware that this page already exists:

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/vendors/

This has most of the clubs as well as other things. You (or anybody) can
add comments with a mouse click from your web browser. Quite a few
have already been entered since DLV 2003.

If you would like to add to the main text for any of those, as opposed
to the comment section, just let me know (send the text in e-mail) what
you think should be added.

>Sorry for the low attendance at Gipsy but this really is not what I
>would call a prime event.

The complaint I heard, both verbally and in the survey, was that there
was an arbitrary decision to go elsewhere after the time and venue had
been published for months. Unfortunately the coordinator of that
activity did have some extenuating circumstances and was not there.
Those who followed the schedule found none of the DLV people there.

This also did happen again, Sunday at the Palace Station buffet, due to
a long line. I was unfortunately one of those present and one of those
who decided rather abruptly to go elsewhere to eat. We need to be more
aware that we may leave people hanging if we do things like this.

>I miss Keys!!

Yes. Me too!

>Glad everyone had a great time!

Overall it was outstanding! There's no question that this was the most
successful DLV to date.

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(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Michelle Jenkins
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On 23/5/03 9:11 AM, annie at dlvdisc@geekbabe.com wrote:

> No, we're not gonna have a nun with a ruler measuring skirt length, but
> from this day forward, inappropriate dress or behavior at mainstream DLV
> activities will not be tolerated, period.

Now are you sure about this!

There does seem to be a (growing) group that ARE VERY interested in
being nuns and they could well come along with their tape measures or
rulers.

Maybe they will even go as far as dealing with those that infringe with
skirts that are too short!!!! =:-0

Now what was that site for the nuns costumes again! Just joking. Been
there and looked already! :-)

Hugs
Michelle

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(This posting was entered by Michelle Jenkins, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Michelle Jenkins
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On 23/5/03 9:11 AM, annie at dlvdisc@geekbabe.com wrote:

> +15. If an event is going to be changed-moved, then someone should go to
> +where the event was supposed to be held and notify anyone that shows
> +up. Mainly what I speak of was the Friday night dance at Gypsy's.
> +Showed up and no one was there only to find out the next day that
> +everyone went to Belagio's instead. Paid $10 cover, turned around and
> +left.

Not quite accurate, is it?

I know some girls did go there.

Bellagios was an "extra" activity organised by Gina and co scheduled for
about a 2:00am start.

Before hand we actually went to "House of Blues" at Mandalay Bay as a
threesome. Kewl place but loud music.

I agree with point of having people there if the activity location changes.

Hugs
Michelle

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(This posting was entered by Michelle Jenkins, an external user of MyDLV.)