A couple restroom testimonials ...

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
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I would like all to please read and consider the below two
testimonials.

These are first-person accounts from two DLVers, two who
just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time
and had their vacations totally ruined by being passive
victims of restroom incidents. These are your peers, your
sisters!

With all due respect to everyone's opinions and degrees of
enthusiasm here, I get the distinct impression that many,
particularly those who are new(er) to true real-world general
public mainstream exposure, really don't "get it" regarding
the importance and the seriousness surrounding restroom usage.

Using a public restroom should be for one purpose and one
purpose only, to take care of necessary bodily functions.

It's not a social activity, ladies! It's not an appropriate
place to fraternize or flirt with curious GGs. For every
GG who thinks it's cool to be in there with you, there are
several others who don't think that you, or anyone else born
with an "outie" between your legs, should be in there at all!

So please read, try to put yourselves in the positions of
these two, and consider ...
. . . . . . . . . .

1:

+I have been reading the comments regarding the restroom
+incident with an inside interest.

+First of all, let me say I missed going to DLV this year,
+part of the reason was schedule conflicts but a larger part
+was last years restroom incident at Boardwalk.

+I enjoy my vacation at DLV, especially the part of allowing
+my inner self to interact with all the wonderful sisters I
+have met at previous DLV's.

+However, considering the time and cost (you know how I love
+to gamble) of attending DLV; I must now consider the viability
+of attending DLV.

+If I return, (you know I will)? Do I eliminate mainstream
+functions thereby negating all restroom issues or attend
+and risk the chance of potential embarrassment?

+Will be following this discussion with interest. Sorry this
+is so long.
. . . . . . . . . .

2:

+I was with a group Friday night that had several of the
+girls go into a ladies bathroom at the same time.

+Unfortunately they also stayed in there too long. I met
+them later and was about to go into the ladies restroom
+when a security guard stopped me abrubtly and demanded
+my I.D.

+I asked why and he curtly said he had the right and that I
+was to give him my I.D. NOW! I complied and he then asked
+me where I was headed. I said to the Ladies room. He shook
+his head emphaticly and said no I wasn't telling me that my
+driver's license said I was a man. Unbeknonst to me, a
+complaint had been given as to the other girls being
+in there and he rudely told me I was forbidden by the
+"Treasure Island Hotel" policy to go into the restroom.

+I tried to explain my position as being transgendered and
+that I certainly couldn't go in the mens. He ryley smiled
+and said I had no other choice but to leave. We were welcome
+to eat their food, drink their alcholl and gamble to our
+hearts, content but that "YOU PEOPLE" are not allowed in
+the women's bathroom.

+I was both angered and stunned but refused to show it. I
+had to go, I couldn't wait, so without even an escourt I
+went into the "mens" bathroom and quickly tried to find a
+stall. Men were quite shocked to see a "woman" entering
+their domain. Several moved back up against the wall while
+a couple disbielieving shook their heads. Once safely inside
+the stall I began to shake and cry. I was so mortified and it
+wasbecoming humiliating. One man asked another if I was a fag.
+Another said that I was probably a drag queen, which he
+replied to as "What's the difference?" Tears began to roll
+down my face as I tried to gather the courage to face them.
+I waited a few more minutes, hoping that they left. I din't
+even bother to wash my hands, I just beelined it out of
+there as fast as I could. One man practiclly died of shock
+as I left. He backed up to check the sign to see if he had
+accidentlly started to go into the wrong bathroom.

+I was very scared, sad an angry. My makeup was ruined, my
+spirits saddened and all I wanted to do was to leave and go
+back home. I went over to a secluded area and sat down and wept.
. . . . . . . . . .

There have been many more incidents over our history, most
unfortunately. I'm very sure there are quite a few which
were never reported but indeed happened. :(

In these two particular incidents, those who suffered the
consequences were not those responsible for restroom misuse.

What's really sad is that over 90% of our reported restroom
incidents have been a direct result of failure to follow our
restroom guidelines!

Unfortunately, many DLVers view the restroom guidelines with
indifference, if not hostility. :( We're not trying to be
control freaks, ladies. A lot of discussion and thought went
into these guidelines, backed by years, decades, of real-world
mainstream public experience.

I daresay that many of you have never read these. (Web server
logs tend to support this assertion.)

What this document presents is a set of "best practices", to
allow you to relieve yourself when necessary, and to promote
an incident-free event for you and all other DLVers. Much of
this was reflected in Gina's remarks.

The original November 2003 restroom document is here:

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/dlvrest.html

Yes, it's somewhat verbose. A good summary, hitting the high
spots, appears in the approximate middle of this document
here:

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/dress/nutshell.html

Please consider the above testimonials, and please familiarize
yourselves with the guidelines, as when they are followed,
incidents rarely happen.

Thanks for your consideration.

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(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Nikki Shae
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What happened with the incident at the Boardwalk??

In the second testimonial I hope everyone can learn from that. A group
hanging out, chit- chatting and doing makeup in the bathroom is stupid.
I for one learned years ago to multitask while I'm in the stall. It only
takes a few seconds to touch up. Easy to do while your taking a tinkle.
If you see a group ganging up on a ladies room or you hear a group not
being tactful in the ladies room it's best to find a different bathroom
for future visits. I always have my floor plans to every casino saved on
my phone. I can find a different one quick. Don't ever try to explain
anything to security unless they ask. Trying to explain transgenderism
is like explaining M theory. Most people don't have the capasity to
understand and/or just don't care. There are only a few times you have
to show your ID. Security rent-a-cops don't have the right to demand an
ID. The only time police officers can demand your ID is if you are
driving or if you

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(This posting was entered by Nikki Shae, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
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>Security rent-a-cops don't have the right to demand an ID. The only
>time police officers can demand your ID is if you are driving or

You might want to check your source on this.

In Nevada and in Iowa I know for a fact, cited by an attorney, that
casino security does have the authority to check ID of any casino
patron, among other things to verify age and to check for an
excluded/trespass situation.

They also have the authority to remove individuals from their
property, and, if circumstances warrant, to detain.

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[External Poster]

This posting is from: Michelle
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There's this lawyer who posts on one of the Blackjack forums who
keeps saying that the casino security can't legally demand ID. The truth
is that those who refuse get thrown out or turned over to the real
police. And that is legal.

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(This posting was entered by Michelle, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Robyin
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You know girls, I don't feel sorry for you in regards to these stories.

It sounds like 80% of the problems are brought on by yourself and the
other 20% is the venues DLV picks for us. Talk about consideration
towards DLV, I feel you should take more consideration about us
attendees from out of town.

I am from Calif and the law is what ever gender you portray is the
restroom you use, any heckling is a hate crime or sexual harassment,
never had a problem in 10 years. I have not ever had a confrontation in
Vegas as a female. But I have had one in the Wynn dressed as male mode
using the handycaped/changing restroom. To address the Trevi hearing
male voice, get use to it until they change the direction signs you will
get males as I followed 4 males in there 30's into the ladies room
realized we were there as it was devoid of a urinal, half of us said
f... it so we pissed standing up in their stalls. Getting back to my
problem is DLV has no consideration about a venue with poor re! stroom
facil

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(This posting was entered by Robyin, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
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> There's this lawyer who posts on one of the Blackjack forums who
> keeps saying that the casino security can't legally demand ID. The truth
> is that those who refuse get thrown out or turned over to the real
> police. And that is legal.

That's obviously within the context of the cat and mouse game
between casino security and (wannabe) card counters.

While it's arguably true that it's not compulsory to identify
yourself, and no legal requirement to carry ID except for such
things as driving or boarding a plane, refusing to identify to
a casino security guard is a certain one-way trip to the door.
In fact, that one way trip to the door has been felt by a
number of DLVers over the years, without any mention of ID.

Around here (Iowa casinos), one particular casino is under a
"card hard" crackdown due to a recent fine for an underage
person on the gaming floor. They have been "carding" anyone
who even looks like they may be under 30 or so, and spot
checking on the floor. No card, no admission.

In the real world, yes, they can and do at times request ID.
They also have been known to discourage wannabe card counters
by acting tough. :)

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(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Sara P.
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One one hand, I'm sorry to have opened up this can of worms.

I was truly inquisitive in trying to find out more details
about the incident I was witness to, if only through hearing.
I'm still not sold that anything negative happened at Sahara,
certainly based on what I actually heard. Please know that my
experience there the last two years has been nothing but
positive and I wouldn't hesitate to stay there again.

On the other hand, discussion such as this has it's benefits
and I hope that all of us can take away some useful real-life
lessons in the whole thing.

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(This posting was entered by Sara P., an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Gina
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Robyin,

You've got a serious attitude problem, you are all about me, me, me, me.

First of all DLV doesn't pick the venues, you do by choosing to
participate at an event that somebody (For NO FEE) has offered to set
up.

In terms of pure consideration, you are obviously a very rude person, by
walking into and staying in the Womens restroom you could have made a
great deal of people very unhappy. Your actions are unconsciousable.

Also to hide behind a law (or a non-law in this case) to mask your rude
behavior is unbelievable.

In my humble opinion, please choose not to attend DLV in the future.

Gina

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[External Poster]

This posting is from: Ginger
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Robyin,

Very few of the DLV organizers live in Las Vegas so we are practically
all visitors when we are in Las Vegas. DLV is a very loosely organized
event and advertised as such in our motto, "A vacation not a
conference." There is no charge to attend DLV and the organizers have no
contractual obligation to the attendees other than a truthful
representation. Various volunteer hosts and hostesses select venues and
plan events.

The DLV organizers publicize the overall event, approve specific events,
put them on a schedule, facilitate reservations when required, and
encourage appropriate participation. Attendees pick the events they
attend and accept the conditions outlined in the schedule and rules for
participation as a condition of attendance as a member of a group. This
is almost the same as you inviting a group of your friends to go for
drinks and dinner at a restaurant of your choice and all voluntary.

Regardless of the law or absence thereof where one lives, what happens
there is of no relevance. We are guests of the restaurants, bars,
casinos, hotels, and other venues we visit in Las Vegas and we must
comply with their rules. Their rules can be arbitrary and capricious at
times, but that is the nature of private enterprise and especially the
Las Vegas culture.

Our feeling is that it is better not to raise issues with the places we
visit, than to force the businesses to make decisions about restrooms
and the like up front. We do attempt to verify the overall level of our
acceptance before scheduling events. For example, we used a bar for
several years, but two years ago when we called to make reservations we
were told we were no longer welcome. They apologized to us and told us
they would love to have us back, but another group from out of town had
terrorized the ladies room causing the management to ban all transgender
groups regardless of any group's past behavior.

DLV is for us all to enjoy and to enjoy it we must give in for the
betterment of the group and think less about ourselves. I was the
hostess for the Trevi event and I am very disappointed to learn that
anyone from our group might have done something to make a genetic woman
guest of the restaurant feel uncomfortable. Fortunately, apparently no
genetic women were in the restroom at the time the loud male voices
were heard. We know how to act in ladies rooms and need to
follow-through. The ladies room is no place for inappropriate conduct
cannot in any way be tolerated.

I don't understand your attitude. Miss Manners would tell us to do
everything we can to make others feel comfortable and avoid bringing
unwarranted attention to ourselves. When we don't, often it's others who
are penalized like in the example I cited above. Less than thoughtful
groups and individuals can cause lots of damages and problems for
others. Sometimes its better to comply in the safest way possible than
to insist on our own way. Moreover, at times compliance with arbitrary
and capricious rules can a practical necessity.

As a law enforcement officer who was once a regular DLV attendee said,
"Even if you can beat the charge, you can't beat the ride," meaning
that the establishment always wins in the end even if you are right.

Ginger

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[External Poster]

This posting is from: Nikki Shae
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Unfortunatly Sara this will always be a can of worms. It's a topic that
is poured over from the political to the personal level. Don't be sorry.
It really starts a forum where ideas from different points of view can
be voiced. I also stayed at Sahara. The staff and security for that
matter know me quite well and are super nice to me. I just have a final
thought for this bathroom issue.

Annie and the DLV organizers put these guidlines out there for us to
follow for a reason. The restroom situation In paticular we all have to
do our part to police ourselves.

Unfortunetly, there are some out there that will always be nothing more
than men in dresses and will always act accordingly. DLV is a huge step
for anyone just out of the closet. It took me two years to actually
attend DLV. After reading the whole site I had to make sure I had the
emotional strength to handle anything that might happen. I would
recommend anyone going out into mainstream anywhere to be prepared
mentaly for any pitfall ...

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(This posting was entered by Nikki Shae, an external user of MyDLV.)