DLV has changed

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This posting is from: Joan Dupree
----------

> DLV has changed! When it first started it very much hid away in bars and
> gay night clubs, scattered over the back streets of Las Vegas,
> occasionally venturing on top or down the strip.

I agree. When I first came to DLV in 2002 it was pretty much that way. I
admit, I was not all that impressed. I wanted more. I never really liked
going to gay nightclubs anyway.

> And then... Someone or some groups ventured out and found that the roof
> didn't fall in on them and so the migration into the real mainstream
> started.

Yes the sky didn't fall in. We're people too.

> Half a dozen years ago, most people turned up top most DLV activities
> and attendance was generally good. This year we saw more and more
> mainstream activities often in smaller (less than 20) groups and lots of
> informal activities taking place all over the place. I was somewhat
> surprised that the two activities where we targeted maximum attendance
> were so well attended.

Bahama Breeze is a winner.

> This year, more than in any previous year, I and the group of
> troublemakers I appear to associate with (love you all!!!) almost seemed
> to go out of our way to enjoy the good life. My credit card bill has
> been inundated with bills from Mortons, Ruth Chris, SW Steakhouse, Trevi
> and others. And quite frankly I enjoyed them all as well the company I
> had enjoying these places.

Thats one reason I enjoy living here, eating great food on the weekends.

> A couple of years ago I felt like "we" were the only ones doing this but
> it seemed very much the norm this year by more and more attendees.

> It probably sunk in more in chatting with Mindy after DLV was over about
> the way the local group of girls seems to be more into the mainstream
> locations up and down and maybe off strip than ever before.

A group of us go to mainstream venues often. And I do many other things
on my own or with other social circles.

> I have to say the one or two diversions into the previous "major" venues
> such as Goodtimes were and out and out disaster. While I never really
> liked the place, it really isn't the current DLV style anymore. I didn't
> get to Blyss so I can't comment there.

I never really liked the place either.

> While I dress as a women full time in Las Vegas, basically from the time
> I arrive to just before I leave, I live as a women and have no
> hesitation about using the Womens rest rooms and haven't had any for
> years now. I fail to see how these issues can develop without some act
> of basic stupidity or idiocy by someone, whether those caught up in the
> incident or something that happened immediately previously.

I live in Las Vegas and dress as a woman full time. I have no issues
with using women's bathrooms. I just go in, do my business , and leave.
That's all there is to it.

> I was caught off guard this year by the way we were treated at Trevi.
> Last year (2007) was Ok but unknown by many was small incident that
> happened just before we left when some of the wait staff started talking
> about "us" after nearly everyone had left, just me waiting for my credit
> card to be returned. This year they were expecting us. I guess they know
> what it means when "Michelle Jenkins" books a group for twenty at
> Trevi!!! :-) Anyway the head waiter came and introduced himself and made
> absolutely sure that we were comfortable, all there and ready to be
> served and as far as I know we were all looked after extremely well..
> The survey results seemed to show that. In some ways it proves that the
> saying when you loom and act like lady you will be treated as such....

I've been a regular at the Prime Rib loft for a long time. The staff has
been more than good to me and those I bring with me. I do have a regular
server who takes care of us. Comfort is never a problem here.

> I've got to the point where I feel Trevi could be used for a larger
> activity but runs into an issue that it would probably involve down
> payments, deposits or something to secure the room, although the
> Wednesday night the upstairs was almost deserted other than our group so
> maybe something could be done. Certainly this could be the opportunity
> to dress up.

I agree, I'm probably going to have to go to a price fix menu or
something like that.

> Some of the things that struck me from the survey included:

> - The lack of support for the traditional hotel (Sahara) and the
> seemingly wider representation of hotels

We do have a wide representation of accommodations, about 135,000 rooms
worth. I think more are gravitating to apartment style living as in
renting condos or suites. A kitchen is nice to have. So is a little more
space, and a place to hook up toys and gadgets to the internet.

> - Lack of enjoyment / comfort for the gay type venues

I never really liked gay venues, and I think many of our people don't
like them either. Being TG is totally different. I never really felt
comfortable in them. I can think of many great places for newbies to go
that are not gay venues.

> It is hard to move away from activities known to be enjoyable. These
> have always included NSD, Limo tour, Golf and others. Maybe we do need
> some better socialising activities but the challenge here is
> affordability, organisation and attractiveness to the masses. It seems
> to me that things like shopping trips and art tours are less likely to
> taken up by large groups, where many simply go shopping by themselves or
> ones and two's.

I think we're going toward smaller activities. I don't really get into
NSD or the limo tour, or golf, etc. As DLV grows, so will the number of
activities.

> It seemed we used the Wynn a lot this year. Some of it for official
> activities (eg limo start) and the show before hand but for other its
> seemed a popular locale for eating and dancing, when they were allowed
> in!!! Some of their staff certainly seem to have an issue with us being
> there. It certainly didn't appear to affect our very enjoyable meal in
> the SW steakhouse but it was more noticeable on the night of the Limo
> tour. I wonder what has happened to have them so touchy???

I am pretty regular at Wynn, and staff at various venues, mostly the
buffet and gift shop remember me. I have never had any problems at Wynn.
They are all to happy to let me spend money there. You can't get any
better than that.

Peace, J. here in warm and sunny Las Vegas.

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This posting is from: Gina
----------

Hi All,

Great note Michelle, who do you mean by troublemakers, if I'm included
I'm honored.

The several days I made it this year were amazing and at the same time,
I wanted to get home to my wife, who I actually told I was going this
year, I've usually sneaked off and got caught once, it was really bad.
Funny what we do to ourselves in fear.

DLV has changed and for the better I think, I have to admit that I may
be one of the ones that have dragged us into the mainstream world, and
that's something I'm really proud of. For the most part, you are all
ready for it and have presented yourselves magnificently. I feel like a
proud mother sometimes :-)!

I really disliked the old smoky gay bars we used to frequent, Sasha's
was always nicer but it's gone. I didn't get out dancing this trip, but
I didn't need to either.

I did miss seeing everybody at one place, I bet that we could talk the
Blue Ox into giving us the back room on a non weekend night. Or as
Michelle suggested Tevi. The Tevi experience was great we were treated
like the goddesses we are, as good as the bridal shower group at the
other side of the room and I bet that they too would set aside the
upstairs for a gathering on a non weekend evening. The weekends are
going to be tough, because that's when they make all of their money.

Air Tours ah yes I'd love to bring back air tours, but that would imply
that I was stupid enough to buy another airplane! I really loved flying
people on those trips, the airport may have been our first mainstream
venue! Hanging out with all of the Japanese tourists waiting for their
charter trips. The costs are ridiculous now, before as Densie said we
were paying $2.50 or so for fuel and now its way over $5.00. My old 182
burned 10-11 gallons an hour for a 90 minute flight. Plus the cost of
the airplane. Maybe when I get my weight down I'll go get my medical
renewed and see what it costs to rent a plane again. But I bet it will
be a hundred dollars or more just to share expenses.

Shopping trips, just get out there, if you are uncomfortable, find
someone who isn't and set up a trip.

A shooting outing! Yes that was my comment, Aiko, Kuniko, Michelle and
I went to the Desert Lake Range and we had a blast. The lady that was
running the place was wonderful. It's a funny thing, ranges are full of
conservative types, but if you shoot well or even try hard they are some
of the most accepting people I've ever met. I used to take a TS friend
of mine shooting at a weekly match with my conservative buddies and at
the Cowboy Action shooting and as long as she tried hard and stayed safe
the people were incredibly helpful. Densie, I think we could approach
the Desert Lake Range and they might set aside a pistol and rifle range
for our use for a morning. They are out in Bullhead city.

I think the best part of the new DLV is the ability to spend time with
your friends at places you want to go.

I love it,

Gina Richards

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This posting is from: Gina
----------

Well said,

Thanks!

Gina

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(This posting was entered by Gina, an external user of MyDLV.)

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This posting is from: annie
----------

> the airport may have been our first mainstream
> venue!

Uh, <vbfg> sorry to shoot down your plane, Gina :) but the
first DLV mainstream activity was in 1997 at the Imperial
Palace Coffee Shop. That's assuming that we're not counting
Margeth's ordeal at the 7-11 the night before, which is
VERY mainstream and was probably the most blatant display of
raw guts I've ever seen on anybody's first night out! :)

Without even looking at the schedules, I can assure you that we've
had mainstream activities each and every year. In 1998 we took a
group to the Stratosphere. (I stayed below and played VP, NO WAY
you are getting me up in that thing!) One of the others stayed
below and played craps, yes, in girlmode.

In 1999 I remember a group at Tony Roma's, plus a fairly large
brunch (for us at the time, at least) at the IP Coffee Shop
again. We also had a couple happy hours at the casino bar there.

From 2000 until 2007, we always had something at the Sahara
Buffet, so I know that all years are covered.

Has DLV changed? Of course.

I think the biggest change is that it's no longer just a spinoff
of an on-line community, meeting in real life, but more of a
sample of the TG community as a whole.

DLV has also grown -- 34-fold since 1997! We must be doing
something right, since people keep coming back and bringing
their friends, and telling others, and ... :)

We've always had mainstream exposure. Many of our larger
gatherings over the years (Carluccio's, Hard Rock, Steven
David's) were mainstream. We've done shows at just about
very hotel on the Strip and then some.

Just because a venue is branded as "alternative" doesn't mean
that those who are comfortable in mainstream can't enjoy it.
I think you ought to give Blyss a chance, assuming it's still
there and unchanged next year. It's smoke-free and sufficiently
upscale in decor and ambience that I know you will not feel
like you're slummin' it. The food is also very good. The steak
I had was right up there with what comes from the name-brand
steak houses at half the price, sides included! I never got
back there to try the ribs, but they looked an smelled good. :)

I think there are many venues, Blyss included, where the new
people can feel comfortable and the more experienced will not
feel claustrophobic. :)

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This posting is from: annie
----------

> Well said,

> Thanks!

You're welcome.

I was gonna suggest that you would also enjoy the Alternative Bar
Crawl, but I didn't want to push it! :)

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This posting is from: Gina
----------

Actually the only thing I don't like about DLV is the LV part,
I'm not a big fan, but with all of you there, I like it fine.
If we chose to move it just about anywhere that place would be
okay to!

Love ya,

Gina

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This posting is from: Mary Beth
----------

Mary Beth here again....

>When it first started it very much hid away in bars and gay
>night clubs, scattered over the back streets of Las Vegas,
>occasionally venturing on top or down the strip. And then...
>Someone or some groups ventured out and found that the roof
>didn't fall in on them and so the migration into the real
>mainstream started.

My first DLV in 2002 was like that. By Wednesday night I still
hadn't seen anything outside of the fruit loop district. So I
took a cab over to Rio, went to the dance club, met a nice
woman, had a great time.

>I have to say the one or two diversions into the previous "major"
>venues such as Goodtimes were and out and out disaster. While I
never really liked the place, it really isn't the current DLV
style anymore.

I went over to (Flex?) for what was supposed to be the post-NSD
gathering. There were maybe 10 girls there.


>There continues to be a need for balance in all things though:

>- Expensive and inexpensive activities
>- Mainstream and secluded
>- New and old
>- Day and Night

Absolutely agree.

>I've got to the point where I feel Trevi could be used for a
>larger activity but runs into an issue that it would probably
>involve down payments, deposits or something to secure the room,
>although the Wednesday night the upstairs was almost deserted
>other than our group so maybe something could be done.

The EON list was closed at 20, then the waiting list started.
About 19 showed up. I think if you made sign up "mandatory" on
the honor system (if you sign up you are committing to show up,
like other DLV events), I think that two weeks prior to DLV you
could reserve 60 places easily. Just stress that anyone who is
late may forfeit their place. We could easily have filled the
upstairs.

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(This posting was entered by Mary Beth, an external user of MyDLV.)

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This posting is from: Michelle Jenkins
----------

Hi,

This E-mail sort of rambles about a lot of things from DLV 2008....

DLV has changed! When it first started it very much hid away in bars and
gay night clubs, scattered over the back streets of Las Vegas,
occasionally venturing on top or down the strip.

And then... Someone or some groups ventured out and found that the roof
didn't fall in on them and so the migration into the real mainstream
started.

Half a dozen years ago, most people turned up top most DLV activities
and attendance was generally good. This year we saw more and more
mainstream activities often in smaller (less than 20) groups and lots of
informal activities taking place all over the place. I was somewhat
surprised that the two activities where we targeted maximum attendance
were so well attended.

This year, more than in any previous year, I and the group of
troublemakers I appear to associate with (love you all!!!) almost seemed
to go out of our way to enjoy the good life. My credit card bill has
been inundated with bills from Mortons, Ruth Chris, SW Steakhouse, Trevi
and others. And quite frankly I enjoyed them all as well the company I
had enjoying these places.

A couple of years ago I felt like "we" were the only ones doing this but
it seemed very much the norm this year by more and more attendees.

It probably sunk in more in chatting with Mindy after DLV was over about
the way the local group of girls seems to be more into the mainstream
locations up and down and maybe off strip than ever before.

I have to say the one or two diversions into the previous "major" venues
such as Goodtimes were and out and out disaster. While I never really
liked the place, it really isn't the current DLV style anymore. I didn't
get to Blyss so I can't comment there.

My personal view was that the style and suitability of dress was
extremely good this year; I saw few if any people that I took a second
look at with respect to style, dress length or otherwise. Makeup,
deportment was excellent generally and really so many of the girls that
were marginally acceptable in the past have improved their appearance
remarkably. I was very impressed. I took in the order of 900 photos over
the week at DLV and most of them show well dressed stylish women,
especially in the mainstream activity settings.

But...my point is that DLV HAS changed. It is getting more and more
mainstream and more and more the whole DLV thing is used as pivot on
which many unofficial gatherings take place, perhaps many more than the
official activities. For sure this makes it harder for newbies to "break
into" the groups of friends that developed over the past ten or so years
and it is not surprising to hear comments along these lines, but on the
other hand many of the people that were new (to me at least) this year
seemed to blend in very well and had little or no trouble being
accepted.

There continues to be a need for balance in all things though:

- Expensive and inexpensive activities
- Mainstream and secluded
- New and old
- Day and Night

The same can be said for the other issues that seem to crop up such as
BDR enforcement versus Group Security.

It does seem as we evolve towards more mainstream activities and
interaction that the risk of unwanted attention increases and the need
for maintaining some control on appearance and behaviour is more
important. But it shouldn't be so overwhelming nor overtly present that
it, in itself, creates a problem.

For those that complain about the level of enforcement being too tight
there are an equal number of complaints or issues raised about the lack
of action over such and such happening or so and so wearing this or
that! We've definitely had both this year (the Charles Bar dismissal,
the behaviour issues at the Blue Oxon the first night (NO ACTION)) along
with usual number of bathroom incidents.

While I dress as a women full time in Las Vegas, basically from the time
I arrive to just before I leave, I live as a women and have no
hesitation about using the Womens rest rooms and haven't had any for
years now. I fail to see how these issues can develop without some act
of basic stupidity or idiocy by someone, whether those caught up in the
incident or something that happened immediately previously.

I was caught off guard this year by the way we were treated at Trevi.
Last year (2007) was Ok but unknown by many was small incident that
happened just before we left when some of the wait staff started talking
about "us" after nearly everyone had left, just me waiting for my credit
card to be returned. This year they were expecting us. I guess they know
what it means when "Michelle Jenkins" books a group for twenty at
Trevi!!! :-) Anyway the head waiter came and introduced himself and made
absolutely sure that we were comfortable, all there and ready to be
served and as far as I know we were all looked after extremely well..
The survey results seemed to show that. In some ways it proves that the
saying when you loom and act like lady you will be treated as such....

I've got to the point where I feel Trevi could be used for a larger
activity but runs into an issue that it would probably involve down
payments, deposits or something to secure the room, although the
Wednesday night the upstairs was almost deserted other than our group so
maybe something could be done. Certainly this could be the opportunity
to dress up.

Some of the things that struck me from the survey included:

- There were lots of people there early and later than the start and end
dates...seeming to me that DLV was the excuse but it wasn't the only
thing they were going to do while they were there dressed or not

- The lack of support for the traditional hotel (Sahara) and the
seemingly wider representation of hotels

- Lack of enjoyment / comfort for the gay type venues

- The need to change the activities somewhat, maybe re-order them or try
some new things

It is hard to move away from activities known to be enjoyable. These
have always included NSD, Limo tour, Golf and others. Maybe we do need
some better socialising activities but the challenge here is
affordability, organisation and attractiveness to the masses. It seems
to me that things like shopping trips and art tours are less likely to
taken up by large groups, where many simply go shopping by themselves or
ones and two's.

I didn't get to any shows this year, partly through lack of interest and
partly through the only one one I would have been interested in seeing
clashing with the Trevi EON.

It seemed we used the Wynn a lot this year. Some of it for official
activities (eg limo start) and the show before hand but for other its
seemed a popular locale for eating and dancing, when they were allowed
in!!! Some of their staff certainly seem to have an issue with us being
there. It certainly didn't appear to affect our very enjoyable meal in
the SW steakhouse but it was more noticeable on the night of the Limo
tour. I wonder what has happened to have them so touchy???

Anyway I need to stop rambling and start working so that's it for now.
For those waiting for the rest of the pictures I'll eventually get them
off to Annie on DVD (2 Gbytes of them) so she can post the remainder.

Hugs
Michelle

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This posting is from: Mary Beth
----------

>The several days I made it this year were amazing and at the same
>time, I wanted to get home to my wife, who I actually told I was
>going this year, I've usually sneaked off and got caught once, it
>was really bad.

I don't understand why she wouldn't want to go just to spend a
week in Vegas!

mb

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This posting is from: Joan Dupree
----------

> My first DLV in 2002 was like that. By Wednesday night I still
> hadn't seen anything outside of the fruit loop district. So I
> took a cab over to Rio, went to the dance club, met a nice
> woman, had a great time.

My first DLV was in 2002. I didn't spend much time in DLV, and what I
did do in DLV was mostly mainstream activities. I spent three of the
days of the week away from DLV with friends from North Las Vegas. Now
DLV is more mainstream so I take the whole week off for it.

> I went over to (Flex?) for what was supposed to be the post-NSD
> gathering. There were maybe 10 girls there.

I've never been to Flex. I've never had the desire to.

>>I've got to the point where I feel Trevi could be used for a
>>larger activity but runs into an issue that it would probably
>>involve down payments, deposits or something to secure the room,
>>although the Wednesday night the upstairs was almost deserted
>>other than our group so maybe something could be done.

I would love to use the Prime Rib Loft for a big event. But I'm sure I'd
have to front a lot of money for it. I'd have to do a price fixed menu.
I had a bit of a waiting list. I had a few show up who weren't on the
waiting list, and I gladly made room for them. I hope never to have to
turn people away. 17 came to dinner. It was a very good evening.


All the best, J. here in LV.

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(This posting was entered by Joan Dupree, an external user of MyDLV.)