Survey written comments report ...

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
----------

Much of this will also be copied to the new ORG group, for initial
discussion regarding the activities of DLV 2005.

I've made some responsive comments to these, and please feel free to
respond and comment as well.

Text from the survey appears with "+" prepended.
. . . . . . . . . .

First, the comments on restrooms ...

+Common sense prevails. Use a isolated wathroom or one of those family
+oriented ones .. Get in - Get out.
. . . . .

+While shopping at Venetian, the restrooms there were too crowded to
+feel comfortable to use, so to avoid any possible incidents I scrambled
+back to my hotel (Imperial Palace) to use the one in my room instead
. . . . .

+I found a "family" bathroom near the exit to the Alladin Parking lot.
+It was a great find for me. If we can locate a few more at the various
+public venues it would be good for girls like myself uncomfortable with
+using the ladies room.
. . . . .

+I felt nervous each time. I avoided them if I didn't have to go.
. . . . .

+I'm uncertain and uneasy using the ladie's room.
. . . . .

+I'm not ready for public bathrooms yet.
. . . . .

The entire DLV 2004 gang deserves a round of applause for the way public
restrooms were used this year! I didn't hear a single report of our
people invading a ladies room in a group, or being blatantly obvious
about using one, or misusing one to play makeover, etc.

The comments above reflect a very mature and pragmatic attitude to the
use of public restrooms. I'm hoping that this attitude continues for
DLV's to come.

Thanks to everybody for helping out with regards to restrooms!
. . . . . . . . . .

The activity suggestions and general comments were very mixed together,
so I'm combining the two categories ...
. . .

+Please hold the event away from Mother's Day. We had to leave Saturday
+night on a red eye flight and the air fares were slightly higher.

+Also would love to see DLV held earlier like is was before. The 102
+Temperature was overwhelming.

+WOULD LOVE to see DLV endorse a hotel so that we get to know each other
+better. So many fun people so little time.
. . . . .

+Eliminate the Las vegas Lounge and spotlight. replace these with more
+mainstream activcities. A nightime walking tour of the strip may be
+worth looking into. This could be done with small groups.
. . . . .

+Maybe earlier in the year because of the heat aspaect, BUT, even
+though it was hot, it was bearable.
. . . . .

+Schedule more of the group social time at Casino and mainstream bars
+rather than neighborhood gay bars.
. . . . .

+I like to have one bid event that we all can get dressed up ( like a
+ball) and meet as many of the girls at one time. I can see that would
+be hard with girls coming and going home every day
. . . . .

+I would like to see perhaps another round of golf at a different course
+(2 days, 2 courses) and a ballroom dance venue for the DLV'ers
. . . . .

+I find the two bars, Flex and Goodtimes to be too dark and too loud.
+Also, we tend to overload the bartenders. Especially the lighting.
+Makes it very hard to take pictures.
. . . . .

+Just one guy, poss worked at Sahara who always called "DudE" To
+us when we were in the area.
. . . . .

+I would like to suggest that all the DLV participants be housed in one
+hotel. That way no one feels left out or find it hard to contact the
+others. It would be nice if there was a general gathering at the
+beginning of the day to let the newbies know what is going on where,
+and let them choose what group they want to go with.
. . . . .

+higher class bars, or even better class gay or lesbian bars.

+earlier in the year, it was way too hot
. . . . .

+I think that possibly having an Evening of Dinner, Street Dancing, and
+shopping on Fremont Street would be fun and low cost. An evening or day
+trip to the Rio to see the Mardi Gras in the sky show would be fun as
+well.
. . . . .

+i heard from a some gals, that they loved the soiled doves trip...i
+would love to do that next year..*smiles* i unfortunately missed it
+...sigh...
. . . . .

+For those who are there only for a few days, it is nice to have a
+"mixer" opportunity maybe every other day. No signup required at a
+comfortable location. That way we get a chance to visit with the
+larger group.
. . . . .

+I wanted to do the Limo Tour, but playing golf in the hot sun all day
+and then trying to stay awake till 2am or more would have been a huge
+effort for me as I am not a young person. Please let's discuss this
+before next year comes and I'll do both. (Golf group average age was
50).
. . . . .

+perhaps dinner at Benihana Village at the LV Hilton....
. . . . .

+In all fairness I decided to go to DLV at the last minute. It did
+surprise me that the last day was before Mother's Day. I didn't
+complain but thought it odd to plan the schedule that way.
. . . . .

+How about miniature golf
. . . . .

+Keep up the "feedback" system you have and continue to encourge "good
+judgement" as you have done for the past three years that I have
+attended. I enjoy the time I am in attendance becasue all of the ladies
+conduct themselves as ladies -- and your reminders are needed..
+continue your guidance--
. . . . .

+I've said this before and I'll say this again. How in the world did you
+guys ever think up the idea for this? This is the most fun I've had in
+ages!
. . . . .

+We should all spend more on alcoholic beverages

Oh, just go to the bar at the Bellagio to make this happen. :) :) :)
. . . . .

+The ONLY venue that I had difficulty finding the location and group was
+the "Charles Bar" get-together at the Bellagio. The directions weren't
+specific and the staff did not know what I was talking about.

+Other than that, the directions and my ability to find the locations
+groups were right on!

+I loved this vacation!!!
. . . . .

+i only have a couple of comments please dont think i am upset this is
+just my view and i had a great time but i did feel the hard rock cafe
+was exspensive and the food choice was very poor i dont eat chicken,
+and it was on both choices could we have a menu with to meals that are
+diffrent. and i found the bars we meet in were to dark
. . . . .

+I had a great time. I liked going to the main stream places but it felt
+so good to go to the gay clubs we could let hair down and act like we
+wanted to. The only thing is that I did't know what some of the
+activities was. And some way to get intouch with the girls. It was a
+little hard for me to know who needed a ride.
. . . . .

+This was a wonderful experience. I am an S.O., and was totally
+comfortable with all of it, and the t's in my group feel the same way.
+We all had a glorious time and wanted it to go on forever. Thank you
+for a totally awesome experience!
. . . . .

+HRC meal was not worth the money! It was not the fault of the person
+who organized it, but HRC. love Milano's, but service was really really
+bad this year, but the food was great as usual.

+The Sahara really does not have a good buffet, maybe why the crowd is
+usually so small.
. . . . .

+I want to extend my thanks to the coordinators and people that worked
+so hard to ensure that the events went so smoothly and as planned. You
+girls are the best and I am so glad that I had the opportunity to be
+associated as an attendee with you. I had the time of my life!
. . . . .

+BIG HUGS! ..I love you for all the time and efforts ..in making Diva
+such a wonderful get-together!
. . . . .

+With the information supplied about DLV, it was very confusing to
+figure out what clothes to bring and where would be to most convenient
+hotel to stay at. Maybe more concise information about locations of
+DLV events, and what to wear could be published before the final
+mailings.
. . . . .

+I stayed at Imperial Palace. Although none of the DLV events were
+there it turned out to be very comfortable, very centrally located, and
+very moderately priced.
. . . . .

+I'm already planning to be back next year and volunteer on something.
+I just need to get more comfortable in more casual outfits. I know you
+said it a number of times, but I did overdress a little.

+The girls of Diva were a treat and need big hugs. The vets could have
+been focused only on their old friends, but were very supportive of
+those of us still new to the experience. Those of us relatively new
+had the chance to discover we share a lot with new and old girls there.
+It is a very positive environment and should be bottled and sold.

+I tried to find Charles Bar, but failed. The directions were home, not
+in my hand. Instead I found another group in the Billagio and that was
+fine too. The only negative comments I heard during all of Diva were
+by a drunk in the Billagio.

+Other than that L.V. was either happy for us or tolerant of us. Even
+the solo side trips I took were comfortable with no negative
+experiences. Very cool.
. . . . .

+Great time, Very well organized again.
. . . . .

+it was a wonderful experience for me personally....being from mass I am
+in close proximity to a few TG gatherings.....however I am very happy
+to have attended DLV 04 for my first TG event....my appreciation for
+all who gave their time and effort to make DLV such a nice experience is
+beyond words....I'll try to make it next year....only complaint I might
+have is beyond our control really, that being the early heat that
+happened this year
. . . . .

+This was my "debut". Thanks to Nora for all her help! Thanks to
+Mindy for her hospitality!

+See you next year!
. . . . .

+I did find that the golf outing lunch was not all inclusive with the
+payment of the golf. Also the seating arrangement of having those who
+finished earlier sitting on top of the lounge and those finishing later
+sitting at the bottom was rather a disappointment, I felt left out of
+the party, only until I and my golf partner and 2 other girls picked up
+chairs and included ourselves in the festivities. The planner had no
+concept of bringing all those that played into her grasp.

+just an opinion
. . . . .

+It's nice that a private home was open to the DLV. Placement of the
+food, ice, and drinks needed to be in a separate area not close to the
+gathering guests. It was awkward to get ice standing between two
+people talking. Space was wasted with the wind-blown pedestals and
+fake trees for a function such as the garden party. I had to ask where
+the drinks were located. I know it's a lot of work to host a party.
+These are only areas of concern.
. . . . .

+I was impressed as to how much better this year was organized than last
+year.

+I almost didn't gon on the limo ride this year, but I'm glad I did,
+much more funt his time. Thanks to everyone who put this thing
+together. It's loads of fun.
. . . . .

+I cannot say enough positive about my time at this event. My only wish
+would be to find a way to attend all of the days and not be "at risk"
+with my home situation. I have been blessed that I have found all of
+you who attend this event.

+Thank you, thank you,
+thank you... Hugs...
. . . . .

+This survey has been well written in that it contains all the
+possibilities to each query.
. . . . .

+This survey is to long.
. . . . .

+All in All excellent. Would like at least one venue that gathers all
+of the gals in one location for a banquite or somthing. With events all
+spread out only met one third of the contingent.
. . . . .

+Can we have one or more nonsmoking events, please. The level of smoke
+in some places was awful. Also, can you mention to please be
+considerate and go outside if you must smoke! Thanks.
. . . . .

+perhaps I am more of an admirer than a significant other
. . . . .

+How about a costume party!
. . . . .

. . . . . . . . . .

Now ... some comments on some of the recurring themes ...

1. Temperature. There's not much we can do about this. I'm not a
meteoroligist (my dad was, I'm certainly not) but I did a bit of
research this year into the springtime temperature in Las Vegas. The
bottom line to this is that the normal variance is far more significant
than the mean temperature a few weeks either way.

In 2001 and 2003 it was unseasonably cool. In 2004 it was unseasonably
warm. In 2003 we got complaints about it being cold and windy. (The Area
51 trip was a definite Bad Hair Day!) Moving DLV a week earlier, even
two weeks, does not guarantee us an ideal climate. Weather will always
be a crap shoot.

Yes, weather is one factor, but one of many that must be considered when
scheduling DLV.
. . . . . . . . . .

2. Mothers Day. In 1997, 1998, and 2000, DLV spanned Mothers Day. Last
year a motion was presented and approved that enjoins us from scheduling
anything on Mothers Day or the two days prior. So, you can be assured
that from this day forward, DLV will not span or abut Mothers Day.

There's lots of discussion about this in the various list archives if
anybody wants to do some homework. :)
. . . . . . . . . .

3. Restrooms. Overall, I would say that everybody present did an
exceptional job in helping us to have zero significant incidents during
DLV. The only case I can remember of any restroom difficulty is one
person having to go very badly on a trip back from an activity where
drinks were served. :)

There was the issue at the Hard Rock, and I and the other ORG people I
spoke to about this agree that this is an "issue" and not an "incident",
since nobody was confronted and nobody was denied the use of any
facility.

I have yet to hear of any negative feedback regarding our group from the
HRC staff in terms of restrooms or anything else.

Overall, very good show, gang. The comments above indicate that our
group was very much aware of restroom issues, took steps to use
public restrooms properly, and chose to err on the side of caution
if they were unsure.
. . . . . . . . . .

4. Mainstream vs. alternative bars.

Ya know, I don't think we will ever, as hard as we try, find one or two
bars of any theme or any scale that 100 individuals will agree are
ideal.

Yes, this year, those who want more mainstream bars and fewer alternative
bars have been vocal, far more so than in the past.

I would think, however, that if this were indeed a calling from the
Teeming Millions to eschew alternative bars and go entirely with
mainstream bars, the activities in the alternative bars would be rated
significantly lower overall. This does not appear to be the case. If we
examine the enjoyment ratings for all bar activities, both mainstream
and alternative, with two exceptions they are clustered between 4.2 and
4.5 with neither of the categories predominating.

We did have two bar activities, both in alternative venues, that were
clearly out of this cluster. First is the Las Vegas lounge, and our only
activity to rate below 3.0 on the enjoyment scale. I think it's safe to
say that we will not be going back there unless it changes
significantly.

The other one is somewhat of an enigma to me. That is the happy hour at
the Freezone. It placed 3.8-something. 3.8x out of 5.0 is, IMAO, not
bad per se, but all but two of our activities were in a cluster of
4.2 to 5.0, making this a clear exception.

I was there, and I didn't notice anything about it that caused a
relatively low rating. We haven't used Freezone since 2000. It may be
due to the lack of familiarity and/or the bad taste from restroom
incidents in the past that contributed to the lower rating. I don't
know.

For those who want more mainstream bar activities, please feel free
to work with the ORG group in planning them.
. . . . . . . . . .

5. One central hotel, group rates.

Taking a trip to the real world, I think there's about as much of a
chance of getting all/most DLV (out of town) attendees in one hotel as
there is of getting them to agree on one particular bar.

IMAO, there are two factors that will tend to drive our people to a
particular hotel, those being a friendly environment and good room
rates.

The subject of group rates came up several times this year in several
conversations.

For those who want to see some of this happen, I offer this challenge:

Do some legwork. Find a (decent, midscale) LV hotel that ...

* States upfront that there will be no restrictions on our group
regarding the use of the property.

* Gives us black-and-white rates that are realistic, meaning better
than the average idiot on the street can get on the web or with a cold
call to the hotel's reservation desk.

* Does not require any guarantee of occupancy or advance deposit, other
than what somebody would normally pay when booking a room.

If you can find this, bring it up to the ORG group. If it's for real,
I guarantee that many of our people will flock to it.

IMAO again, we may have OD'd with the number of our suggested hotels
this year. We had 4 (count 'em 4) midscale hotels that were quite
similar in facilities and price. Our people tended to gravitate to two
of them and avoid the other two.
. . . . . . . . . .

6. Getting the *WHOLE* group together at once.

Getting the entire DLV group together in one place at one time is not
as easy as it may sound. As far as I can remember, this has happened
only once in the history of DLV (1997) and will most likely never
happen again.

The big problem is that there's no time where the entire group is in
Las Vegas. Some leave DLV before some of the others arrive.

For the past few years we have, however, tried to have a few activities
during Friday and Saturday where we strived for maximum turnout. We
intentionally did not multi-track anything against them and we tried to
be sure that the venues were acceptable to as many as possible, from
those newly out to those who are avowedly sooooooo mainstream. We even
went as far a couple years back as to ask one of our people to not plan
a certain activity that would syphon attendees from these activities.

Examples of these have been the Carluccio's dinner, Annual Mixer, and
the Garden Party.

The best we seem to be able to do is to get about 70% of those who are
in town at the time to any particular activity.

I think it all comes down to the fact that we will never be able to plan
any single activity that appeals sufficiently to everybody to get
everybody to come out and join in the fun. The individual likes,
dislikes, and comfort levels are so diverse. Some, for example, don't
like the GLBT bars, while others are scared $#!+less to go to a
mainstream casino bar. Others avoid places where lots of smoking goes
on, while there are those who would not spend any time in a place
designated nonsmoking.

The type of activity sets limits too. Some love to sit around and
socialize in a bar, others detest it. Things like golf/high tea/museums
will never attract everybody.

If anybody has any ideas for some kind of an activity that would draw
more than 70% or so of our people, please speak up.
. . . . . . . . . .

7. Smoke and smoking.

I sure don't know the answer here.

The one thing I do know is that smoking appears to be more common in the
t* community than it is in society in general. My guess is that about
50% of our attendees smoke. I suppose we could ask that on a survey
question, but that can't happen until next year.

I know the smoking issue has been with us since 1998, and I sure don't
have any solution to it.

The complaints always seem to follow two general themes:

a. Immediate area problems, such as one table or booth where nonsmokers
are outnumbered.

b. Comments that certain venues are smoky, often times combined with the
term "dark" as well.

I think the best we can do is to ask both smokers and nonsmokers to be
more considerate and more tolerant of each other.
. . . . . . . . . .

8. Charles Bar.

Yes, we probably should have stated that "Charles Bar" was not really
the name of the bar, and that Allegro (Allegra?) was indeed the name of
the bar to look for.

In the future we can be more careful to refer to things by their correct
names and be very explicit where within a property things like bars,
buffets, restaurants, etc. are.

I'll plan to take this step and several others related to the various
material. More detail on dress suggestions earlier, etc.
. . . . . . . . . .

As for the various activity suggestions, those will be presented to the
new ORG group for discussion and consideration. If you want to have some
active part in the decisions on these activities, please step forward
and volunteer to assist with the planning and implementation of DLV
2005. The group that plans DLV is in no way closed or exclusive.
. . . . . . . . . .

Again, thanks to all who took the survey. It lets us know what we're
doing right, where improvement is needed, and how everybody enjoyed
each and every aspect of DLV.

----------
(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Denise McCracken
----------

IMO, selecting a common hotel is a big mistake. The staff at Sahara are
already aware that we go there once a year, and some of them are not
happy about it (judging by a comment that I have heard twice, on
different years, at the buffet).

If there are a hundred of us at the same hotel, customers and staff will
make comments, and the management may worry about loss of future
business. We have to face reality here...many people are shocked,
offended, or frightened when they see us. The more we can spread
ourselves out, the fewer "incidents" we will have.

-densie

----------
(This posting was entered by Denise McCracken, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: jamie
----------

I have to agree with Denise. We need to be spread out some. All of us
being at a single event seems to work for a short time, especially in a
family enviroment. Jamie Renae

----------
(This posting was entered by jamie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Rhianna
----------

Densie,

I agree. What you say is, unfortunately, true. Hopefully, that will change
for the better.

Rhianna

----------
(This posting was entered by Rhianna, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Hollye
----------

F' em! Tell them to take their weenie butts to Disney World then! LOL

But I for one will stay at the IP if and when I can afford to go.

----------
(This posting was entered by Hollye, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: JoAnn
----------

>If there are a hundred of us at the same hotel, customers and staff will
>make comments, and the management may worry about loss of future
>business. We have to face reality here...many people are shocked,
>offended, or frightened when they see us. The more we can spread
>ourselves out, the fewer "incidents" we will have.

I could not agree more with Denise's observations. JoAnn

----------
(This posting was entered by JoAnn, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Ginger
----------

>IMO, selecting a common hotel is a big mistake. The staff at Sahara
>are already aware that we go there once a year, and some of them are
>not happy about it (judging by a comment that I have heard twice, on
>different years, at the buffet).

I've been pretty happy with the Sahara. The two inappropriate gender
pronoun/remarks I heard this year were from a coffee shop employee, a
dim bulb doing the best he could, and two young-adult red-neck customers
at the buffet cashier stand impressing each other. This year I was told
the coffee shop was under new management with a new menu (with poor
selections from my perspective) and sometimes slow service.

I was unaware any buffet staff had made inappropriate comments, but have
heard mild complaints about the food. It's inexpensive and since I'm
primarily a vegan the choices are great for me, but as Tony remarked
what I eat is what his food calls food. My knowledge of Las Vegas is
limited, but other hotel buffets I've visited had limited selections of
what I consider safe to eat and cost much more, some almost three times
as much. Regardless, there may be more unhappiness with the Sahara and
its buffet than I know and maybe we should consider alternatives for our
optional daily group luncheon.

I also agree with Densie that staying in one hotel would be a bad
mistake considering the event and attendance. To paraphrase Annie, we
seem to do best when we fly under the radar.

Ginger

----------
(This posting was entered by Ginger, an external user of MyDLV.)