Ages

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vera Delmar
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But dear, sometimes it's not about passing...it's about connecting to
your female side and having funScrew those who may think you look like a
guy in a dress. Screw them! Just be yourself. respect others, be kind,
have fun,


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(This posting was entered by Vera Delmar, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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I'm finding air-fare relative to popular times to travel. Outside of
Spring break, which can be several weeks, air-fare prices are lower for
no significant influx of people to go to or from LV. May starts the
summer break where colleges and summer travel begins. But over all
changes with the airlines, where it cost me $300-$400 for a round trip
back in the 1990s, it is now costing more than double ($900+) with less
free things in coach. We now have to pay for luggage and if one has two
luggage and not to exceed a certain weight or there is a charge, and if
you want a better meal on the plane there is a charge, and can't bring
water for even if its not opened, I've had TSA confiscate that water, so
one has to buy bottle water at the airport for $5+ for the same bottle.
One has to bring their own head phones to use the on-board screen, and
pay to see movies or tv shows. No longer is earphones, pillow and
blanket, free along with in-flight programming and featured movie. Its
all by credit card now. At least the soft drink and water is still free.


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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[annie]

> Don't tweak anything. Diva is fine the way it is.

This appears to be what most of those who have answered the original questions are saying. Thanks.

> I would be more regular if only there were more reasonable
> price air tickets and deals on rooms like you used to have.

Air transport is currently a sellers' market and unfortunately that's probably the expense that we have the least control of. Since the Great Recession wound down, air fares have risen significantly. In the early-mid 2000s I would typically pay $200-ish for DLV airfare, but lately if I can get it under $400 I think I've found a real bargain!

All I really can suggest here is to book early and try to find the bargains that still do show up. If you're in an area served by Southwest, they include two bags with a ticket and they are very liberal about allowing you to rebook if fares drop.

If you're an area served by Spirit and/or Allegiant, they usually have the lowest posted fares to LV. They charge extra for about everything and would probably charge you for the seat belt and the restroom if they could!

As for hotels, we've been fortunate that for the past two years we've had someone who has taken the initiative to finding us some actual meaningful discounts at a major Strip hotel. It doesn't reduce the hotel rate to what it was in 2002, but it sure helps!

> One obvious thing your not bringing up is that younger gurls,
> at least those who do dress up, usually pass a lot better
> and don't need to go to Diva to get out.

If you don't mind I'm gonna use the term "blend" here in most cases instead of "pass" just because I think it's more accurate in this and many contexts.

Yes, those of younger generations have many more options than we had when we were in our 20s. I will also agree that for the current 20-ish or so TGs, those who are indeed out in mainstream public are those who tend to blend quite well.

> You all know that gurls who can pass have it a lot
> easier both in transgender community and real life.

I'm not going to argue with this at all. I must admit that the two examples I cited prior regarding gainful employment both blend very well and are not at all obvious.

There is one other thing I would like to bring up. Just as there is a learning curve to climb regarding becoming comfortable going out in mainstream public, there's also a learning curve to becoming comfortable in public with those who do not pass (or blend) as well as you might like.

> Young and passing and you start out from second base.

LOL, when I figured out which "second base" you were referring to here I admit the analogy does fit.

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Sarah Charles
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I finally sat down and spent the last hour or so trying to get caught up
on my DLV discussions. I want to add my voice to the mix and pick at a
few threads that stand out to me in the most recent post event talk.

DLV has never done advertising, except by word of mouth. Because of
that, the membership is self-selecting. Most of us tend to have friends
closer to our own age, some younger and some older. We also pass on how
much we enjoy our time at DLV with those we share interests. And if we
attend and enjoy a DLV and return, we gravitate to those we know from
previous contact. This isn't to say we don't develop new friends over
the years, but there is a strong tendency to find those you are already
comfortable with, at least at first. But even with that tendency, I've
made new friends every year and the DLV experience continues to grow
richer with each one. If the goal is to build a larger and more
diverse group we will need to market the event. However I believe that
kind of effort would work counter to what most of us see as successful
year after year.

The activities do include things that this Medicare girl just has to
stand back and watch. The late night dancing, visit to the Studio and
driving at the Speedway all come to mind (well the speedway does sound
fun, just expensive - more on that later). I don't play golf either,
even though it fits my age bracket. The thing is, those of us who
attend are the ones picking the events we want to share with those we
know and a offer to those we have yet to know. I keep going back and
doing the Art Tour because I'd do it anyway, with or without DLV. But
having plenty of new faces this year was a treat. When I was in my 20's
and 30's I enjoyed going to art galleries, so this isn't something that
is out in left field and just for the old broads. As we organize the
next DLV and the one after that, I expect the "younger" crowd will
continue to schedule things that fit their interests better than mine.
Great! We have DLVer's who have enjoyed both our event and WildSide.
Great again. That kind of cross fertilization will be good and as long
as we are willing to establish BDR and follow standards for each event,
I don't see a problem with new activities with different some
expectations that are more attractive to more adventurous attendees. In
other words, don't come to the Fine Art gallery with glow sticks and in
club wear and I won't be at the Electronic Dance fest waving my cane in
your face and yelling "Get off my lawn." We can make this work with the
respect we've been developing for one another over the years. Just
don't do things that create problems for others regarding the
expectations of how to behave in bathrooms for instance. The respect
for the rest of the public is critical during this time of societal
change if we expect respect in return.

The cost of DLV has gone up over the years, but for me it's been the
damn resort fees and my willingness to gamble as much as anything else.
This year I spent more than ever and was still well under the average.
I'm the queen of the shoestring it seems. I am fortunate enough to be
able to drive to Las Vegas and of low enough standards to stay in less
expensive hotels. I bring a cooler and a way to heat things and often
breakfast in my room. I go to the grocery store and buy snacks or even
deli items to keep in the room in an effort to keep my costs down. I've
even been known to have a little wine in my room so I don't need to go
to the bar for a nightcap if I want one. Yeah, I'm cheap, but I'm
comfortable with that. The Art Tour I host costs about $15 and in the
past I've tried to do other events in that price range. We can keep our
costs down if we really want to, but this is a Vacation, so I don't have
a problem with the more expensive events, even if I feel like I can't
participate. You go and enjoy yourself and I'll live that one through
your stories when we meet for drinks later. Because that's DLV for me,
not the events themselves but the interaction and stories we have when
we get home.

So my recommendation is to maintain a light hand on the wheel of this
craft. Welcome new attendees and new events if they want to organize
them, but don't abandon those who have been nurturing this beast for so
many years. It has evolved and will continue to evolve as we age and
as new people become involved. If we mange to keep to those core
principles of respect and support and we should be fine for the next
generation. I'll be at the Art Gallery, I hope to see you there.

Sarah


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(This posting was entered by Sarah Charles, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vera Delmar
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> I finally sat down and spent the last hour or so trying to get
> caught up on my DLV discussions. I want to add my voice to the
> mix and pick at a few threads that stand out to me in the most
> recent post event talk.

Well stated, Sweetie.


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(This posting was entered by Vera Delmar, an external user of MyDLV.)

[annie]

Just a quick note here.

For the record, this topic (thread, whatever) is not closed. It's been posted to several times since the "Leadership" topic was forked from it. Our people use all kinds of various readers to read these postings, which may or may not support some degree of "threading", so YMMV on what appears to be an active thread depending on how you read this and what you use.

Please continue to discuss ages if you wish.

[docrobbysherry]

Attending my first full Wildside this year, I was surprised to see so many girls I had seen at DLV 2 months earlier.

Please keep scheduling DLV about 2 months from WS. Then, no one will have to choose one over the other!

[Micki]

The age issue has been around for a while and I read a book some years ago on the topic called bowling alone http://bowlingalone.com/ It is very in depth and not very impatient people but the results are very interesting especially the parts that deal with age groups.

I have belonged to CHIC for over 25 years and held various positions on the board. CHIC has been around for over 40 years and our ages follow the same trend as you are experiencing at DLV. I think that the lack of discretionary income plays a large part because on the younger end you have things like getting married, buying a house, student loans etc. ahead of you. At 60 you have far more income to play with once the kids are out of the house and your career is probably at or near it's peak. There are far fewer demands on your income. CHIC applicants have averaged between 45 and 55 for the last 10 years.

I think it's birds of a feather flock together in many ways.

[External Poster]

This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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I can agree -- with reservations.

Yes, when one is in their 20s to say... 50s, its relationships, family,
and expenses moreso with raising children. At 50s or after 60, there is
retirement, kids move out hopefully and go on their own, and limited
retirement monies and social security income unless one has well planned
for retirement, or working till it kills them, any spending can still be
a very big issue for basic living conditions, and increasing health
issues and costs because of those health issues, taxes, and and cost of
living increases. I've never seen utilities go down in costs, and its
increased cost can negatively impact retired individuals that has
limited retirement income.

Traveling to events such as DLV also includes increase costs with
increased distance from Las Vegas, to get to that city. It gets more
expensive the farther the distance, and for some they have to travel
quite a distance. Then add the cost for rent as in a hotel room, and
maybe a car. Add food costs which would be eating out, unless one has
access to a furnished kitchen or home, but still has to spend for
groceries and other needs. So even at older ages, there is costs
depending on where one is located.

I can see if living close to Las Vegas as in the next state over, is
considerably less than from the East Coast or even east of the
Mississippi, or from the other way across the Pacific or Atlantic Ocean.

Money from salaries, or saved personal income funds is a critical issue.
But its not just financial. There is also the issue of what events to do
with each age group. Each generation is different in what they want to
do, and even within the same generation activities will attract only
those that like that type of activity. Those that want to do what is
offered will attend. Others will go to other events if those other
events offer what they want to do.

We have two almost back-to-back. Its come down to 1: Diva Las Vegas for
those that like that type of events from Mar 26-31. Wild Side's 11th
Annual Sin City Soiree for those that like that type of events just over
a month and a half later from May 15 -21. Two very different kind of
events and neither a convention-like event. Both involve eating,
drinking, dancing, and other tourist type events. One big difference is
the subject - age of those that attend each one.

The kind of activity is also a factor, and not just the cost. I can see
some that can go to either, but will decide to go to ONLY the one they
will have the best of what they are looking for as a transgender event.
Some have the pleasure/ability to attend both, which when one IS retired
may not have to worry about work and using vacation days. Or can take
off anytime when they feel like it.


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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[RobinTG]

Just a thought.....I dont think the younger ones "need" events. They were raised in an era that is more open and accepting. If someone under 30 is T they have friends that they are quite open with. They mainstream much younger and readily and anyone older can imagine. I can see the long term future decline of events.