Ages

[annie]

> 1. No
> 2. Nothing

> I vote for keeping it as is.

Thank you! I would sure like to hear from some of the others who have been relatively silent on these questions.

> Let the younger ones conform to what Diva has been and not Diva
> conform to cater to the younger crowd.

I'm of the opinion that we really don't have to change much at all to better zero in on what the younger (and here I'm kind of generalizing by saying younger than the Boomer generation, many of whom do not consider themselves to be that young) would find of interest.

We've found out, for example, that dance activities are popular with the younger attendees, but can be enjoyed equally by the Boomers. We've expanded the Late Night Dance sessions to almost nightly recently and we could easily expand the Mainstream Clubbing to multiple nights as well.

We've also found out (or more correctly chosen to realize it) that high-end dining does not appeal to the younger folks, and it's very simple, assuming we have volunteers to do so, to be sure that we have more contemporary and more reasonably-priced dining options available.

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vera Delmar
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The dinning I agree with you... perhaps the high end dinning options can
be an alternate track for those that can afford them but find others in
the medium or low end available for those DLVers that enjoy an
inexpensive meal(s) while in Vegas.


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(This posting was entered by Vera Delmar, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Sara P.
----------

Being a 40-something throughout my entire DLV experience, I'm in a
somewhat unique position of being on the younger side of the attendee
curve and can see both sides of the coin pretty clearly.

From my perspective, DLV meets the needs of those who were previously
served by support groups. These organizations met in the shadows to
provide anonymity to the attendees, giving them a place to go, express
themselves and perhaps make friends. Many, if not most on the age curve
in their forties and upwards experienced coming out into this wonderful
world of ours in just that manner.

What has changed is that those who came of age with the internet no
longer need to seek the perceived safety of the shadows in order to step
out and make like-minded friends. I don't believe for a second that the
twenty & thirty-somethings are content to being glued to their
computers. They just use it to network and then converge on a local
Starbucks or wherever they wish to go.

Wider tolerance in their circles also mean less need to go on a weeklong
tour of expression. Many simply live as they see fit, some even
incorporating whatever degree of gender nonconformance into their
routine which is more tolerated among youth in general that it is in the
older population.

As for the cost of DLV, it seems the younger set are being painted with
a broad brush as being broke. Across any age range, you will find the
extremes from destitute to beyond well off. I don't think cost is a
barrier when it comes to DLV and youth. Plenty of young people have more
disposable income than many of us.

It is my opinion that DLV shouldn't change a thing as long as it is
content with the knowledge that over time there is a high likelihood
that the event as we know it will die on the vine. Given the trends we
are seeing with youth in our community and the growth of Wildside (which
I'm sure is sucking most of the TG-vacation-desiring youth away from
DLV), we are likely going to see the attendance bell curve on a
downslope very soon, if not already.

And that is OK.

If you change to attract youth, there is no guarantee they'll come. If
the course is stayed and it keeps the current participants engaged and
happy to return every year, then why mess with a winning formula?

And you never know, maybe some of the Wildside crowd will get older and
more tired with that concept and migrate over to DLV, thus creating an
influx of new blood. Unsure if that is likely to happen given the divide
between the two groups.

Just my 2C.

Sara


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(This posting was entered by Sara P., an external user of MyDLV.)

[Marisa]

Could the younger guys be dealing with the question of "Is this who I really am and want to be"?That's the scary thoughts that spun my head around often way back then in my younger days.Can we just TALK about IT in other than a formal big group meeting where the subject goes to the biggest mouth ?
Where do the DLVers dine at that don't attend the scheduled dining events?Could that question go out in one of the next mailings?There may some ideas from those whom are leery of hosting an dining event. Marisa

[Michelle V]

Two things here before I get to bed.

First, could it be as simple as no younger gurls go because they know no younger gurls will be there. Kind of like a viscous cycle?

Second, with all the publicity about these bathroom bills I'm surprised that there isn't any talk about that here since bathrooms have been a hot subject always at Diva.


Marisa wrote :
> Could the younger guys be dealing with the question of "Is this who I
> really am and want to be"?That's the scary thoughts that spun my head
> around often way back then in my younger days.Can we just TALK about IT in
> other than a formal big group meeting where the subject goes to the biggest
> mouth ?
> Where do the DLVers dine at that don't attend the scheduled dining
> events?Could that question go out in one of the next mailings?There may
> some ideas from those whom are leery of hosting an dining event.
> Marisa

[annie]

> Can we just TALK about IT in other than a formal big group meeting
> where the subject goes to the biggest mouth ?

We can talk about it right here, seriously. Everyone has the same opportunity to speak, as opposed to real-life fora where, yes, those who are outspoken tend to dominate.

> Where do the DLVers dine at that don't attend the scheduled dining
> events?

That is a very good question! Everyone has to eat, and even at the largest dining activities we have some missing people. On the multi-track dining evenings, the sum of those attending does leave some dining elsewhere (like me this year).

> Could that question go out in one of the next mailings?

We can start the conversation right here. I'll start the thread as soon as I respond to a few more items. Lotsa good chit-chat this morning.

If you don't think we get enough good answers we can surely pose the question in our next general mailing.

> There may some ideas from those whom are leery of hosting an dining event.

Let's bring up this angle in ORG when it starts up next month. (If anyone has something to say on it, however, don't wait, just post it here please.)

[annie]

> First, could it be as simple as no younger gurls go because they know no younger
> gurls will be there. Kind of like a viscous cycle?

The concept of homogamy (like seeks like) is probably at play at least to some extent here.

I can speak from some experience here, since I started attending TG events while I was in my 20s. I was very much AWARE that I was younger than most, but there were some 20-somethings and 30-somethings out and about and I seldom if ever remember being shunned for my, uh, "youth and inexperience", LOL!

> Second, with all the publicity about these bathroom bills I'm surprised that there
> isn't any talk about that here since bathrooms have been a hot subject always at
> Diva.

There hasn't been any restroom chit-chat here mainly because, ummm, there hasn't been any restroom chit-chat here. Seriously, it seems, to me at least, that restroom issues have been becoming less and less significant to DLV in recent years. If you have (or anyone has) a need to discuss it, please do so.

Now if you're interested in a good source for the latest goings-on in TG news, surf here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tra ... s/messages

It's an aggregation of what's been hitting the various news media on all subjects related to (trans)gender and there's been a LOT of postings on the "Awful Bathroom Bills" lately.

[annie]

> From my perspective, DLV meets the needs of those who were previously
> served by support groups.

The one thing that I find interesting is that current support group membership, as reported among our attendees, has been significantly declining. I was somewhat surprised to find that the re-run of the survey with those under 50 only showed NO current support group membership.

It appears to me that in this day and age there is less of a need for the TG support groups, particularly those as you note are discretion-based.

> Many simply live as they see fit, some even
> incorporating whatever degree of gender nonconformance into their
> routine which is more tolerated among youth in general that it is in the
> older population.

This is my observation too, and runs along the line of there being less of a need for organized opportunities to dress.

> It is my opinion that DLV shouldn't change a thing as long as it is
> content with the knowledge that over time there is a high likelihood
> that the event as we know it will die on the vine.

I do not envision DLV withering and dying as long as we can maintain a strong-enough volunteer force to pull it off in a quality manner. Most of the major TG events have seen a decrease in attendees and the biggies are really hurting, since they depend on paid registration to survive. (For geeks, that "C term" will kill ya!) Several once-prominent TG events have disappeared (Be-All being the last major victim, Fall Harvest, Cal Dreaming, Texas T, and that one in the Ozarks which I don't recall the name being recent casualties.)

We still have a good influx of new attendees, many of whom are "sticking" and return.

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vera Delmar
----------

Plenty of young people have more disposable income than many of us.
Really???

I find this hard to imagine or even believe with the reality of life
today as we hear so often in the news and all that so many Transgender
people are being discriminated when it comes to getting employment. I
would think the young TG gal would need to hook up with a rich sugar
daddy to live a comfortable life style these days... I can't imagine
other wise. But maybe I'm wrong.


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(This posting was entered by Vera Delmar, an external user of MyDLV.)

[annie]

> Plenty of young people have more disposable income than many of us.
> Really???

I'm aware of a few 20-something TG types who have successful careers, but not that many. I'm acquainted with one local applications programmer, very inconspicuous and low-profile, who is pulling in a good income. This individual has absolutely no desire to go to DLV (has told me flat out) and ditto with either of the other organized LV-based TG events.

I'm also acquainted with another, a 30-something mid-level bank employee, who transitioned on the job with the support of her employer. This individual is, again, very inconspicuous.

I know a few other 20-something techie types who are beginning potentially successful careers.

I admit that these are the exceptions and not the rule. I'm acquainted with many more 20 and 30-something TGs who are marginally employed at best.

> we hear so often in the news and all that so many Transgender
> people are being discriminated when it comes to getting employment.

I know that there is some bona fide discrimination out there. I also know (and here are some of the words that have gotten me in trouble at times) that there are many cases where discrimination is alleged but other factors were more importantly at play.

I can say for a fact that in the company I recently retired from, where I was actively involved in hiring (and unfortunately firing) decisions over the course of several years, that gender identity/expression, along with sexual orientation and race, ethnicity, religion or lack of same, etc., were all totally neutral factors for hiring, firing, promotion, bonuses and such.

I know that a few of you in LV were acquainted with a friend and co-worker of mine, a former Operations Manager at one of our LV sites, who regularly performed on stage at the Freezone back in the early 2000s. This was the individual who introduced our group to Flex around that time. Even our then CEO was aware of this and actually dropped in on some performances. No, I am not making this part up!

> I would think the young TG gal would need to hook up with a rich sugar
> daddy to live a comfortable life style these days...

In looking at the other side of the spectrum, those are the ones who are lucky to have a consistent means of support! Just take a look at a certain local "Lounge" in LV and you will see many who are struggling to make ends meet doing what they think they need to do to eek out an income. And even those bar girls are relatively high on the pecking order for many! They have, at least for the time being, the looks and the bodies that will get them the business. Things like that do not last.

Oh well ...