Comments on the comments, part two ...

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
----------

More comments on the comments ...

Any further comments, gang? :)
. . . . . . . . . .

Unfortunately we had a number of restroom issues and incidents
this year. I was a witness to one which I described as "a
major incident just waiting to happen", and there is evidence
that some restroom misuse by some DLV attendees was somewhat
widespread this year, as reflected by the following comments:

+Gurls are starting to go to bathrooms in groups again.

.. and ...

+You cant not go in groups if a group is already in there
+when you go there.

Using public restrooms in groups is one of the absolute
worst practices there is! It shows a lack of common sense
and a total disregard of others and of the DLV program as
a whole!

Please, if any of you witness either a group of our people
entering a public restroom, or enter a restroom and find a
"frat party" in progress within, immediately bring this to
the attention of the primary coordinator of record for that
activity or else one of the senior volunteers.

Please report this in real time, and not after the fact!

No, you're not being a tattletale! You're preventing a very
serious incident from happening or getting worse!

We want to be able to take care of things like this before
they escalate in the form of complaints to security or
management.
. . . . .

+TWICE, during the dinner at Trevi, I was in the stall and
+I clearly heard loud male voices in the ladies room. Instead
+of me, it could have very easily been an intolerant civilian!

I couldn't have said it better myself! :) From the Discussion
Forum, it appears that I was not the only witness to this.
. . . . .

We did have a minor incident at Fremont St.

+At fremont street (at a bar), think it was close to where
+we got dropped of a waitress angry that I used the ladies
+room. However security ignored her.

If this was the report I received in close to real time,
this happened at Mermaids, corner of Fremont and First.

Mermaids, nee Sassy Sally's, was a fairly notorious clip
joint which has been cleaned up somewhat over the past few
years. The same guy now owns Mermaids, La Bayou, and Girls
of Glitter Gulch, and supposedly all have been cleaned
up to an extent. Previously they had been cited many times
mostly for minor infractions.

What this shows is the obvious difference in attitude among
various individuals. The waitress obviously thought it was
a big deal and that an offense had been committed. The cop,
who was really the one whose opinion counted in this case,
did not. :) You really can't tell which side of this issue
somebody will be on until things happen, unfortunately. :(
Had things been in reverse, you could have been very
forcefully shown the door!

But anyway ...

My suggestion remains, for any case where the group is very
obvious to onlookers. Get AWAY from the group before you
seek facilities!

For example, if you need to take a bio break during the "cat
walk" downtown on the Limo Tour, duck into a major casino
(by yourself, please) and look for a restroom far away from
the main entrance area.
. . . . .

A few comments came in WRT the Bahama Breeze ...

+In Bahama breeze my problem was little kids in the lady's
+room . The uni gender toilet was closed to us. I used the
{deletia}

.. and ...

+Change the Bahama Breeze venue if restroom facilities are
+not corrected.

It's my understanding that the situation was corrected in
a reasonable length of time and that the unisex restroom
was unlocked.
. . . . .

We received multiple comments desiring some kind of a guiding
hand in using restrooms:

+You need a bathroom-101 training session for new gurls.

.. and ...

+You need to give us more guidance as to what bathrooms to
+use where. I didn't know what to do at a couple places.

It's very possible, if somebody agrees to coordinate it,
to have something like a roundtable discussion or a "Lunch
And Learn" session on restrooms. If such a thing is to happen,
I would hope that those who are new(er) and those who really
need it would attend.

A few similar comments implying that the organizers need to
take more responsibility for restrooms came in:

+You need better arrangements to use bathrooms.
. . .

+You need a designated bathroom at major events.

I'll bring this up to ORG. The organizers and volunteers have,
over the years, been reluctant to negotiate any "special
arrangements" to use restrooms, for many reasons.
. . . . .

Some do have a good attitude toward the subject:

+I tried very hard to follow the guidelines when using the
+facilities and believe this helped with not having any
+problems. So I think the guidelines are good! I do what
+you suggest in my home state, as well, where legally I
+can use the restroom appropriate to how I am presenting.

All of us, organizers and rank and file attendees, appreciate
the willingness of those who follow the guidelines and make
it easier on all of us.
. . . . .

A number of remarks regarding dress and appearance ...

+I thought the people were suppposed to be completely male
+or completely female.

You are correct.

True mixed mode, such as "skag drag", "dressing from the
neck down", obvious facial cosmetics in boymode, beard
growth in girlmode, etc. is not allowed at DLV, period.

"Complete boymode or complete girlmode" is our standard.

+I saw a number of ladies who were not presenting as female
+at all.

.. and ...

+There were some gurls who dressed neither in boy mode or gurl
+mode. In groups this was somewhat distressing since it was
+inappropriate that we should appear anything but ladies.

Androgynous or "genderqueer", looks are discouraged at DLV,
even though they are becoming more "usual and customary"
in society, and some will say that they are arguably within
our guidelines. True mixed mode, as stated, is not allowed.

I did not witness any blatantly intentional androgynous looks
this year. However, others apparently did.

What we do occasionally get are those who have the look
that's often called the "Too Natural" look. This particular
look is described here:

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/dress/dlvd13.html
. . .

+I do not know what to say or who to ask about that. This made
+a few of the mainstream activities a little uncomfortable

Let's review, for the record, what to do, what to say, and
to whom ...

If someone's appearance or behavior is truly interfering with
your enjoyment of a DLV activity, the first thing you need to
do is to bring it to the attention of the primary coordinator
of record for that particular activity.

Ask around if you do not know who this is.

Call the individual aside for a brief chat and explain your
feelings. This individual will be the primary one to take
action. No, you're not being a tattletale or a b*tch, if
someone's enjoyment is being hampered, we need to know it.

This is outlined in part 3 of this document:

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/administ/motion3.html

If the named coordinator is not present, does not wish to
confront, or refuses to take action, the DLV volunteers of
voting status, as a whole, can direct the individual to go
change into a more appropriate outfit. This is reviewed in
the above document as well.

That's chapter and verse WRT what to do if you are indeed
uncomfortable with someone else's dress or behavior.

All of this, of course, applies only at mainstream venues.
No BDR enforcement is normally performed or expected at
"safe venue" activities.

One very important facet, and admitted shortcoming, of our
standing rules is that even though we have these procedures
on record for dealing with behavior/dress/restroom issues,
there's nothing currently on the books which in any way
requires any action to be taken. The default is that no
action will occur unless somebody says something at the
time, and even if something is said, there's no binding
regulation that says action must be taken.

And again, if it bothers you, please say something in real
time so something can be done about it. Please don't wait
until a follow-up survey to report it.
. . . . .

Doing boymode is cool too ...

+I was at a couple of events where one of the attendees
+wasn't ready to be en femme for the day. They were made
+comfortable and accepted into the activity and that was
+great both for them and the rest of the group.
. . . . .

+DRESS==AGE/SIZE/WEIGHT APPROPRIATE FOR EACH
+PARTICULAR VENUE, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC EXPOSURE

+I.E. GAY BARS DRESS THE WAY YOU WANT

This is the way it's intended to be, and yes, the "safe
venue" activities usually have very permissive dress
guidelines.
. . . . .

There were a number of comments regarding why no action
was taken under a few circumstances, and a few with a
common thread, regarding one person's outfits at some
of the various activities.

+There was one person at BB that stood out, dressed as if
+going to a prom/formal in a very elegant purple formal gown.

+That person's gown outfit, which looked very nice on her,
+stood out of place with how everyone else dressed. It was
+very clear to everyone I socialized with that saw this person,
+it was very noticeable and to many it was uncomfortable.

+I also felt uncomfortable with how this person dressed as
+such at this event. ...

+Since nothing was done, it seems this dress was acceptable.

.. and ...

+A Victorian ball-gown is a costume. For a costume party it
+would be great, but not for the main stream. Don't you enforce
+this anymore?

{DLV organizer's hat on ...}

Nothing was done at BB because, as far as I know, no complaint
was made to the coordinator(s) of record. If the appearance of
someone is genuinely affecting your enjoyment of one of the
DLV activities, you need to bring this to the attention of
the coordinator(s) of record for that activity ASAP.

If you're willing to take the effort to write several
paragraphs about it after the fact, you should be willing to
take the effort to find the coordinator of record and express
your feelings. No, you're not being a b*tch or a tattletale.

In this case, others made similar observations, so your
feelings were indeed shared.

See above in the event that the coordinator of record does
not wish to take action.

Again, please do this at the activity. Please don't wait
until after the fact.

{DLV organizer's hat off}
. . . . .

I really didn't see too much of this, if any, but I did hear
about it both during DLV and after ...

+There were times that I thought the dress code could be
+better.

+Also there were some that wore inappropriate short skirts
+that brought undue attention to us as a group in public.

+I am all for sexy if one can carry it off, but really!

+Also costumes are somewhat inappropriate in public venues.

.. and ...

+Slack-off on BRD enforcement is showing. Skirts are getting
+shorter and it's all going to come to an ugly head again
+unless you do something about it.

Yes, a sexy outfit, if it is indeed age, size, and occasion
appropriate is within our guidelines. (Think the 30/130 rule.)

However what we have more often than not is someone well over
30 and well over 130 who tries to make such an outfit work.
It does not! :(

Personally, I think the long dress with the hoop skirt looks
far better than the looks presented over the years by those
of middle age and of significant size who do the miniskirts,
fishnets, crop-tops, clubwear and such and try to come off
as wannabe 20-something hotties! However, I'm not everyone.

Again, if it's bothering you and affecting your enjoyment,
please get the primary coordinator of record in the loop,
and please do it at the activity in question.

Now, as to any perceived "slack-off" of Behavior, Dress,
and Restroom enforcement ... there were no incidents of
enforcement this year because, as far as I know, either
no complaint was made in person in real time (BB) or the
issue was not serious enough, as judged by the coordinator
of record and senior volunteers, for any action to be
taken (Trevi).

Throughout our history, almost all cases of BDR enforcement
were driven by attendee complaints.

The attendees clearly want to see enforcement of guidelines
to be done, as indicated by the following survey question:

+Which best indicates your feelings toward our level of
+attention to and enforcement of behavior, dress, and
+restroom guidelines?

+I support a higher level of enforcement.: 16
+I support the current level of enforcement.: 72
+I don't like it, but I understand why it has to be.: 15
+It's a bunch of bullsh*t, knock it off!: 3

Although the majority supports the current enforcement level,
a significant majority want to see an increase in the level
of enforcement. Only a very small minority (3 out of 100-some)
think that the BDR guidelines are doodoo!

The job of enforcement does not lie upon anyone in particular,
in fact it can be said that it's everyone's job. If something
is bothering you WRT behavior, dress, or restroom usage, it's
your job to bring it to the attention of those in charge.

I would also go as far as to suggest that, depending on the
various circumstances, some unofficial peer pressure may be
appropriate. If the issue can be solved without any formal
intervention, all the better!
. . . . .

Moving on ...

There are a few comments in here which really bother me. :(

+Again the ladies who have been doing this hte longest were
+very cliqueish. And even when we approached them they were
+cool and not interesting in new people.

I sure hope I'm not one of those you're referring to. I've
been doing DLV longer than almost all of the others, and
this year I'm happy to say that I've gotten to know several
new attendees and got to know several recent returnees much
better.

I know that at both of the large activities, I kept my eyes
open for cases of somebody who did not look like they were
interacting with others. I saw very few cases.

I would like to hear from the person making these comments
as to the details on why the perception of cliquishness was
given.

+We saw at a lot of
+venues ladies come in and leave becasue they did not know
+what to do and I feel like the hostess's of the events should
+have been more aware of this. We had lots of people at this
+DLV and I would hate ot lose new comers

I would hate to lose newcomers too! :(

I would like to ask the individual who wrote this to please
give us some further details of where you saw this (people
come in and leave shortly, etc.) so we can get similar
situations under control in the future. :(

+There were many members in the group that were not friendly
+to me when I met them at the Imperial Palace.

I think it would be very beneficial for you to please give
us more detail regarding what you perceived as unfriendly.

Also, what activity at the Imperial Palace? Details, please,
as we want to try to get a handle on things like this. :(
. . . . .

We had one major misunderstanding regarding rides:

+When I asked for a ride to see the Frank Marino show, I
+contacted the coordinator Nora. She was very rude to me.
+She told me "No, I won't give you a ride and if you read
+your email you wouldn't be asking for a ride from any DLV
+person due to legal issues!"

I'm sorry if this is not what you want to hear, but the
duties of a DLV contact person and an activity coordinator
do not include giving a ride to, or finding a ride for
those who may need it.

The contact people were specifically told to tell those
who phoned for a ride to please take a taxi. Nora was
simply following the agreed-upon procedure.

It was very clearly stated to please not phone the DLV
contact people to ask for a ride. Sorry.

The topic of what to do regarding local transportation was
covered in depth in the Large Final Mailing.
. . . . .

There were a couple comments regarding the perceived safety
and vulnerability of the Commercial Center area, and in
particular after dark and on weekends.

+Las Palmas is know to have gang activity on the weekends.
+The police have been called there many times.

.. and a similar report ...

+We were warned not to go to Spotlight this year due to gangs.
+That neighborhood is getting rough. Same for Las Palomas.
+It might be safe in the daylight, but after dark that
+neighborhood ffeels unsafe.

I do know that the Merchants Association for Commercial
Center is aware of this, but I don't know if any action,
specifically, has been taken to deal with it.

Gang activity is not limited to the off-Strip areas. A few
years ago there was a gang incident behind the MGM Grand
on the night before DLV began. :(

Despite what they tried to do in the 1990s, Las Vegas is
not Disneyland, and yes, there are some Bad People who want
to do Bad Things! You need to be streetwise and aware of
your surroundings, both day and night.
. . . . .

I heard very few issues regarding our Welcome Celebration
at Firefly on Monday. However ...

+The Monday night dinner at FireFly in the Plaza Hotel: Our
+table was the last to get our food; the kitchen lost our
+order; we waited over an hour before the waiter discovered
+this; the waiter himself prepared and delivered my food; my
+food arrived 15 min after the group photo shoot;

This is really the only complaint I heard about Firefly. As
I've suggested before, please be sure you express your
disappointment to the staff and management in real time so
they can do something about it. They do want to keep you as
a customer happy, and they will often times make adjusments
to the bill has such to keep you happy.

If you are shy about doing so, or don't know who to reach
out to, get the DLV coordinator of record in the loop, as
she (or he) will know who to talk to.
. . . . .

+i had a problum with my age as i am only 20.

Uh, quite honestly, I wish I had your "problem". :) :)

+At one of the events i was ID'd and asked to leave but after
+i just went to the grop and sat down thay desided after a Bit
+to let me dance again. the next day i went there and thay had
+no probum with me but the person who ID'd me asked one of my
+friends if she should call me a guy or girl.

I have to admit that Las Vegas is not very friendly to those
in the 18-20 age range. There are activities and attractions
for younger kids, and of course for adults, but not many for
older teens.

+Next year i will be 21 so i woun't have to wory :D

Yes, the "problem" with age does go away over time. :) :(
. . . . .

+1. What do you mean by the difference between Crossdresser,
+Transgender, and Transvestite?

We don't define these, or even attempt to do so. We only
track what you self-identify as.

+2. What do you mean by comfort at the events?

Again, it's in the eye of the participant. Comfort, overall,
as perceived by you. Even though our survey takers may have
different definitions of comfort, as we get many responses
we do get some valid ideas of the comfort levels of our
various activities. For surveys such as this, errors and
"noise" will cancel out as the number of responses increases.

+3. For money, you need more specific ranges for answers.
+Much to broad.

The questions on amount spent are approximate ranges and
yes, are intended to be answered as rough guesses. For a
survey of this type, when the 1-2-5 scaling is used, as the
number of answers increases, the results, the averages, will
converge on the same numbers that would be the results if
exact to-the-dollar amounts were input. (The formal proof of
this requires some rather geeky math and will be held as an
exercise for the student.) :)

Related item ...

+Estimated cost section should include cost of rental car,
+which is usually my biggest expense, and for me this year
+added $550 to the total for the week (the Collision Damage
+waiver really jacks up the rental rate).

Thanks for that suggestion. I think a good addition would
be that of a question on the amount spent on local
transportation as a general case. It is one thing we have
not been tracking. If you (or anyone) wants to get some
numbers for rental car expenses, tabulate the numbers for
those who state rental car as their local transportation
and that will produce the result you desire.
. . . . .

+Why were comments about Glamor Boutique deleted. There were
+more of them there before Diva.

I'm assuming you mean the vendor comments on the Big List.

Comments and ratings expire after 5 years and disappear at
that time. Since a good percentage of the comments and the
ratings are entered in April or May, right after DLV, there
will be a more obvious decrease in the number of ratings
and comments during those months. This is most likely what
you are seeing.
. . . . . . . . . .

The common theme in many of these comments, that which
really means a lot to us as organizers and volunteers,
is reflected in the several following items.

+I've been to DLV for several years now and walking in to
+Firefly and seeing so many familiar faces was the best feeling
+ever. I knew this was the reason I was there, not just a chance
+to crossdress in a public venue, but to be with friends.
. . . . .

+We had a great time, sad to see it end. Thanks
. . . . .

+Everything seemed to work out just right. Great to renew old
+friendships and make knew ones.
. . . . .

+Thanks for all your work, was awsome!!!!
. . . . .

+I thoroughly enjoyed an opportunity to meet people from all
+over, hopefully making friends we'll contact as we travel and
+can reconnect with until the next DVL.

+We were both quite impressed with the planning that went into
+this event. Everything, from our side, went smoothly - and
+years ago I planned events, so I'm partially aware of your
+endeavors. A HUGE THANK YOU to all!
. . . . .

+What a wonderful, wonderful week! From the warm welcomes on
+Monday to the sad good-byes on Friday. I truly enjoyed every
+minute and was sad to see it end. My sincere thanks to all
+who worked to hard to put this on. xoxox
. . . . .

+There were many activities to choose from, mainstream or
+alternative, different price ranges and different comfort
+levels. The loose structure of DLV allows anyone to taylor
+there week to anything that they want. That is what separates
+DLV from all of the other TG get togethers.

+I'd bet that most of our attendees had no problem finding
+something to do on their own in Vegas.

+Thanks for a great DLV. See you all next year.
. . . . .

+Thank you again. Great week.
. . . . .

+Thank you again so much.
. . . . .

+I had such a wonderful time and met so many great people at
+DLV! I am a community leader and will be telling my groups
+about DLV to enjoy more people to come with us next year.
+My sincerest thanks to all who made DLV possible. As for
+the DLV hotesses that we met, everyone was very sweet and
+helpful. Thank you Annie, Nora, Marissa (great events),
+Suzanne and to all the others!!!!!!!!!!
. . . . .

+Great event. Lost of friendly girls. Great restaurant
+selections. Good food all the way.
. . . . .

+Had a great time and came home very tired!

+Thank you!
. . . . .

+I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for all your
+labors and energy given to this event.

+I think you did very well at providing a multitude of
+activities that accomodated a huge spread of experience
+and comfort levels of the attendees. Good job!
. . . . .

+All the best darlings I had the most wonderful time and can't
+wait till next years event/Vacation with my new/old friends.
+Thank you all so very much.
. . . . .

Feedback such as this is always appreciated, and lets us know
that despite a few bumps in the road, we are doing something
right and that what we are doing is enjoyed and valued by
those attending!

----------
(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
----------

> Again, please do this at the activity. Please don't wait
> until after the fact.

> The default is that no action will occur unless somebody
> says something at the time, and even if something is said,
> there's no binding regulation that says action must be taken.

> if it bothers you, please say something in real
> time so something can be done about it. Please don't wait
> until a follow-up survey to report it.

I want to make sure I understand you correctly.

You don't want comments on such subjects
as reported because its 'after the fact' in the survey
at the end of DLV.

Even if we report it to whomever organizer, there
is no binding regulation to respond, so NO action
can be the result, and the problem situation continues.

This type of stuff isn't talked about at events when
this is ongoing. Its more felt - as in uncomfortable, and
no one is really sure if it bothers others,or if one
person's opinion is shared amongst the majority of
others, for its not really a topic of conversations
at DLV events. The comments have stated it was
uncomfortable. Most attendees talk about other
subjects than compare themselves to others.

Or do you encourage and want conversations that
compares how one looks at the DLV activity, and
have it based on how one person looks in comparison to
others?

Its also something attendees don't easily talk about.
for its not clear if the person's attire is inappropriate
to others or everyone. No one says anything about
about their attire to not to offend anyone they are
talking to, so the result is no action is taken
to bring this to the attention of a organizer.

Its a negative comment against a attendee (who thinks
she dresses OK) about how her appearance is seen ]
as unacceptable by others. Who is to say someone
else's opinion is better than her opinion? So
most will keep their opinions to themselves, so again,
nothing is verbally spoken.

> Call the individual aside for a brief chat and explain your
> feelings. This individual will be the primary one to take
> action.

Yes, action can be in a form of louder argumentative voices
or physical reaction/altercation. What authority does a attendee have
over another to say what they are wearing is not acceptable?

Taking the initiative as you say to telling that person,
when it wasn't asked of by the problem person, then involves
another issue you bring up of a attendee forcefully telling
another attendee about how one looks. So now another problem
is generated by the person wearing what she feels is
appropriate and acceptable, but not to other or a few
attendees who are now telling her how she badly she looks and
should go home and change into something else.

It still comes back to what right a attendee has to tell
another attendee that they are dressed inappropriately?

The overall result of inappropriate attire is the same.
Inappropriate attire or attire that goes against what has
been suggested in the guidelines is allowed and tolerated,
and probably nothing will be said or done about it.

This past DLV has shown it. 'Nothing was done.'

----------
(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
----------

>>if it bothers you, please say something in real
>>time so something can be done about it. Please don't wait
>>until a follow-up survey to report it.

>I want to make sure I understand you correctly.

>You don't want comments on such subjects
>as reported because its 'after the fact' in the survey
>at the end of DLV.

No, I think you're misunderstanding me on a few talking
points here.

I did not say that it's inappropriate to report it on the
survey, but that it should (also) be reported in real time
so that something can be done about it.

>Even if we report it to whomever organizer, there
>is no binding regulation to respond, so NO action
>can be the result, and the problem situation continues.

This is true. The coordinator of record is not required to
take any action if he/she chooses not to. However, this is
the first person to bring the concern to.

There is an additional means of action. The volunteers of
voting status can act as a whole and direct the individual
to go change.

>>Call the individual aside for a brief chat and explain your
>>feelings. This individual will be the primary one to take
>>action.

>Yes, action can be in a form of louder argumentative voices
>or physical reaction/altercation. What authority does a
>attendee have over another to say what they are wearing is
>not acceptable?

You most definitely misunderstood me on this one. Let's
review the original context ...

+ ... the first thing you need to do is to bring it to the
+attention of the primary coordinator of record for that
+particular activity.

+Ask around if you do not know who this is.

+Call the individual aside for a brief chat and explain your
+feelings. This individual will be the primary one ...

"The individual" in the above context refers to the
coordinator of record as the one who you should call
aside. Sorry if I was unclear.

However, let's circle back to the point you bring up:

>What authority does a attendee have over another to say
>what they are wearing is not acceptable?

None, other than things such as friendly advice and peer
pressure.

I'm aware of a couple behavior issues which have been
effectively dealt with this way in the past. The survey
in recent years has shown a few cases of this. It's also
shown a few cases where the outcome was not positive.

>It still comes back to what right a attendee has to tell
>another attendee that they are dressed inappropriately?

As far as a "right", I suppose everyone has that right to,
say something, but they must accept the risks of doing so.
The way the climate has been lately, there is somewhat of
a risk in speaking freely. :(

>This past DLV has shown it. 'Nothing was done.'

Nothing was done at the BB because, as far as I know, nobody
brought it to the attention of either the coordinator(s) of
record or to the volunteers as a whole.

As an aside, are we sure that the person wearing that outfit
did not check with one of the coordinators, who gave her an
"ok" to wear it?

Now there was a case at another activity where the coordinator
of record was made aware of a similar situation. This person
then consulted with a couple other volunteers (I was one of
them, my response: "your call") and concluded that the issue
was not serious enough to warrant action.

The volunteer coordinators, for the most part, are hesitant
to taken action unless they really don't have a choice. In
the best of circumstances it's an awkward situation, and it
very easily can become a total train wreck! :( Very seldom
in our history has a BDR "counseling" session turned out to
be a win-win.

Likewise, attendees are hesitant to report things, and I
would speculate that much of this is that they do not wish
to cause or escalate said train wreck.

No, I don't have a bottom-line answer, nor a forward-looking
sure-fire solution for this and other cases.

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(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Rosada Delano
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>>Again, please do this at the activity. Please don't wait
>>until after the fact.

Was the offender a new gal or a previous attendee?

If the latter...well shame on her. But if it was a new attendee,
well then perhaps pulling her aside away from the others and
discretely informing her that she is not dressed to code
specifications.

If I was the offender I'd like to know. Please ladies, don't
let me go somewhere where I am not dressed appropriately. We're
all here to support each other. I think if it is done tactfully...
no one should get the feathers ruffled. And if they do, well as
the saying goes.."Oh, well!"

If this problem becomes an real hot button issue for the next
DLV, why can't we solve it by establishing a small group of
ladies who can handle the offending lady and gently tell her
she needs to go back to her hotel and change. How hard is that?
That way the task doesn't fall on just one person. More power in
numbers. In fact, the volunteer of the activity can be part of
the group that "advises" the assumed guilty person.

There might even be a standardized check-list of minimum
requirements at each event that the outfit in question must
meet in order to pass muster. If it doesn't.....the lady earns
a trip back to the hotel to pick out another dress. This all done
without embarrassing her. We can call it "she spilled something
on her dress and had to go and change into a new one" incident.

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(This posting was entered by Rosada Delano, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Cynthia Phillips
----------

Hi all,

Why would anyone want to spend $45.00 + on a makeover to hide their
wrinkles and not want to turn the clock back on those body buldges too?
Of course I want to look 21 again, and not like Whistlers mum. The wig
style alone cost me $15.00 bucks. I've got three kinds of face cream:
a wrinkle reducer, a skin tightener, and an age defier. I've gained ten
pound a year, every year, for the last 20 years, it's permanant, it
won't ever come off, last time I weighed I broke the scale. I've got
one last chance in life to attract a man/mate/ playmate/partner/etc.,
this is my last round-up; I want to be Queen of the Universe, not Nellie
Wallflower, I attend DIVA to come out, not to hide in plain sight. Wait
'till you see me next year, I'm really going to give you something to
complain about : )

p.s. hope you are all having a glorious summer!

Cynthia

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(This posting was entered by Cynthia Phillips, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Sindee Honey
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Heya sis ! Yup. Okay all, we are going to take this discussion off list.
I just had to tease Cynthia a little.

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(This posting was entered by Sindee Honey, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Cynthia Phillips
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Hiya Sindee,

Nice to hear from you again. It must have been wonderful for you to
have had a date to BB, maybe I'll be as lucky next year and won't have
to walk around like a trollop "on the make". How's the transition
going? Write me back if you care to and tell me all about it.

Best regards,

Cynthia

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(This posting was entered by Cynthia Phillips, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Mindy
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[Moderator's note: The DLV Discussion Forum does not support
included images. The originally attached image appears on line
at the URL below. Click on it to access the image.]

Violation or Not?

Mindy

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/misc/ohmy1.jpg

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[External Poster]

This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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Mindy,

LOL, how did you come across this photo?
Is there any story behind it?

The shopping cart looks full of stuff they are going to
buy. So that person is seriously there to do shopping.

I thought it was legal to dress like that as long as the
genitals are covered...

ie show boobs but all that has to be covered are
the nipples. So in this case the butt can be seen but
not what is in the crotch.

ie string bikini top with tiny triangles that barely
only covering the nipples, and a thong bottom just
enough to cover the crotch (and most of the pubic
hair) but definitely showing the rest of the butt and
hips.

We have alot of ggs dressed close to this and walking
on the popular beach front resorts and in the shops
nearby, including Walmart ....bigger ggs too
like the one in the picture with short hair.

Is it a guy or a gg, I only see a side/back profile.

..at least... I think... it shows that he/she is wearing
some kind of supportive cover, like a panty or unders
to support the genitals from hanging out ... or his butt
is a different color as in bikini/swimsuit tan line? :-)

Its still would be up to the organizer of the Walmart
shopping tour to make the call to allow it. :-)

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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Nancy Ng
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Violation for sure. That blouse the woman on the right is wearing is
awful.

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(This posting was entered by Nancy Ng, an external user of MyDLV.)