Situation at the Freezone?

[External Poster]

This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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from another group - similar story - dated May 30th - but may have
occured at a earlier date.

"... like many of us asian girls, i am not that big, 5 8 medium build
and dress well and do make up reasonably well, do not dress trashy (at
least in public, haha). either i or friends who were with me have been
stopped from using the restroom in some of the most unusual and
surprising places such as a gay bar called freezone in las vegas (can
you believe that?!?)"

So its not that isolated of a occurance of this happening to others.
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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Kumiko Watanabe
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Seems the new TG Nevada law interpretation may not apply to occasional
CDers and maybe the use of the restrooms for the CDer.

>From a posted article from the
Review Journal May 24 2011 titled
"Sandoval signs transgender job discrimination bill"

It states:

"During hearings in the Legislature, transgender people said the bills
were intended to apply to people who consistently live a transgender
lifestyle, not to occasional cross-dressers."

So there is some gray areas in how the law is interpreted and if it
includes CDers at all.

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(This posting was entered by Kumiko Watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vera Delmar
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How would they know who's a TG'er and who's an occasional cross-dresser?

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(This posting was entered by Vera Delmar, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Sue Leighton
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I am not sure how this becomes a gray area unless there is more context
in the original article. So Transgender people said something. We
have to remember that the usage in law is that transgender covers the
entire spectrum. If the law says that transgender people can use a
bathroom matching their presentation, I don't see where a number of
people who aren't judges can make their own interpretation. It just
smacks of separationism. And I hate separating ourselves. I believe
in the old thought that we move forward together or sink together.

But really, am I missing something? Who are the people who said this
and do they have an impact on how the police enforce the law?

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(This posting was entered by Sue Leighton, an external user of MyDLV.)

[annie]

> But really, am I missing something?

I think the only thing we're missing is an authoritative legal opinion on what effects, if any, Nevada SB 331, 2011, has on the access to gender-designated restrooms. Until that comes out, the situation is subject to misunderstanding and speculation. I have yet to hear anything that comes out of the mouth or keyboard of anyone admitted to the Bar in Nevada regarding this topic.

Layperson interpretation appears to fall into two areas. Some believe that SB 331 is a "free pass" to use the gender-designated restroom of one's choice. Others believe that if a business makes available some facilities, any facilities, to everyone, they are within the letter of the law.

An opinion will most likely eventually come, possibly from the Nevada AG's office, perhaps from a trial court judge. Less-binding opinions may come from private attorneys hired by those with an interest in the topic.

Until an opinion (from an authoritative source) emerges, expect a lot of confusion and misinformation, and yes, continued discrimination.

> Who are the people who said this

The LVRJ article from which this "soundbite" was taken appears here:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/gover ... ation-bill

That particular quote reeks of the oh-so-tired putdown game of "101 reasons why I should use the ladies room and you shouldn't" which is sometimes played at various TG gatherings.

The complete text of the bill (not the one primarily referred to in the LVRJ article) appears here:

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/76th ... /SB331.pdf

Upon re-reading it, I see absolutely no reference to any of the specific labels of identity which define and divide us.

> and do they have an impact on how the police enforce the law?

No more than you and I have.

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Katie Wilson
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Why are we even bothering with Freezone? If a place that makes money
from the public rebuffs our group then it is a No Brainer...stop going
there! It would not be a tough decision for me and would only take one
insult to stop me going somewhere I was not welcome so why are we as a
group so afraid to go somewhere else?

Send them a letter and tell them we won't be back and how many of the
DLV group used to go there at DLV time and through the year also for those who
are local. I am not suggesting that we negotiate or seek an apology from them
as that seems to backfire every time Freezone comes up on the schedule. We are
too trusting and keep giving them our business even when things like this
happen.

We are not hard up for places to go and DLV is swaying towards
mainstream places anyway so let them see our dust girls and move on.

We had an off Strip hotel which gave us problems a few years back and
kept asking them to play nice and as I remember that didn't work either.
If we keep doing things like this it won't be long before word gets
around that we are a bunch of softies and will do anything to keep them
as a venue at DLV then others might think they can get away with similar
treatment.

Let's cut them off and forget they even existed. Dredging up bad
experiences just brings the group down. I have never been to Freezone
and never will even with an apology. Katie.

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(This posting was entered by Katie Wilson, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Mindy
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Well said Katie.

Mindy

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(This posting was entered by Mindy, an external user of MyDLV.)

[Linda]

I love your attitude Katie and agree with you wholeheartedly. A business that starts restricting their clientele eventually goes out of business. However, it would be nice to find out exactly who or what the problem is. It may be just one renegade gay bouncer who doesn't like tgirls. I understand there's a lot of that going around, although it seems that most of them can tolerate us.

Linda

[External Poster]

This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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One reason why....

DLV maintains a list of venues and rates levels of acceptance at those
venues, based on individual experiences at each venue.

So current updates, as in clarification of any new or recent issues with
the list's criteria with any of its listed venues - is needed for a
review of this venue's rating, so that the 'list' remains current,
accurate, and dependable for those that use it as a reference to going
to those venues.

If not, then this list becomes in-accurate, and having an in-accurate
list is a waste of time and worthless. Why trust something that is not
correct.

I agree with Katie, as far as a individual or group actions/response.
Just don't go.

Should that venue be marked as such accordingly on that list?

Are they breaking the law too? Is a right being violated?

If so then it should also be noted ... but are we sure that Free Zone is
wrong, and doesn't have that right based on what the 'Law' states?

This situation can or does involve the Revised Statues of Las Vegas or
Nevada as far as rights to use public accessed, gender separated,
restroom facilities, which is the 'Law' in a privately owned, public
accessed 'venue'. Was it written in such a way to be vague and
ambiguous to its interpretation?

Legallity issues involves the interpretation of the law, to what the
'law' states and also its 'intent'. When this is not clear - it leads
to different interpretations by non-legal, legal people, and
businesses. This results after some time to a amended ruling or a
amendment to the RS by the local legislature, or by a court judgement
based on past court cases.

Does a cross-dresser - dressed, looking like, and behaving as a woman
have the right by law to use the women's restroom? Some say by law,
yes, and this is supposed to no longer be a issue.

Obviously some like Free Zone, says NO.

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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vickie Stone
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We are not the only TG group to have get togethers in Vegas, there are
several other groups that do, of course some of us are friendly with
those groups and will share this information, so it's not just US...it's
a lot of groups, from what I understand, every week or so another TG
group comes into town.

Sincerely

Vickie Stone

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(This posting was entered by Vickie Stone, an external user of MyDLV.)