Charles Bar

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This posting is from: joan dupree
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What happened, please enlighten us, especially those like myself who
were home sleeping at the time. Sincerely, j

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This posting is from: Gina
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To whom it may concern,

I'm with THE WILDSIDE! Im writing this because I just can't let go my
shock over YOUR (you know who you are) behavior at The Charles Bar event
last week.

SHAME on you for your reprehensible actions that night!!! How dare you
throw someone out of an event, in a public place no less, because they
aren't up to your so-called standards!! Isn't that kinda what being a
T is all about? Not following rules & standards dictated by
conventional wisdom?

I just can't tell you how disappointed I am over your actions, and I had
to get that off my chest. You should know I had a nice, nasty tirade all
written out for the haters, but the LADY you ejected, calmed me down and
reminded me how we at THE WILDSIDE deal in respect, acceptance & class.
So that being said, I'll leave you with her words

Don't be concerned about DLV fashion police: to me that was the best
part of t [input truncated]

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This posting is from: Gina
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Hi Gina,

The other Gina here, the lady that we asked to leave was not registered
with DLV as a participate, was dressed more provocatively than any of
the hookers I've seen at any Bar in Las Vegas (very short pink knit
dress, with stockings that ended way below the dress), and Charles got a
call (or visit) from security concerning the individual (I didn't know
this until later).

I was gratified that the lady was polite enough to accept that she
should leave. I thank her for that. All in all, the Charles Bar event
was the best attended ever and I had a wonderful time.

The Wildside is fine, most of you looked great, I think we need to
decide how we as "T" people want to present ourselves to the mainstream
world. (As mainstream and upscale as Las Vegas is). I believe we want
to show the finer side of ourselves and save the provocative side for
NSD, and other venues where that is more appropriate.

The type of dress that the lady showed is the type of dress that seems
to most often trigger security intervention in the rest rooms and
generally makes it more difficult for the rest of us.

I personally like to convey (albeit questionably sometimes) a level of
sophistication that makes it difficult for regular people (the white
bread) to object to our existence and presence. If we appear somewhat
normal or at least at a level that they can easily fathom, it makes it
easier for them to get past their inherent beliefs and prejudices and
allows room for some level of acceptance for us.

I've never been a "get-in-their-face-and-deal-with-it" type of person,
because it inherently shuts down communication. However, I'm very
insistent that they do deal with me as Gina and not someone else, but
the opening for communication, education and therefore "acceptance" is
open.

Let me be totally clear, I think it is terrible that we need to speak to
someone for being inappropriately dressed. At our age and experience,
we should be able to judge what is acceptably dress for a particular
venue, we need to be aware that we represent the entire community to the
people we meet and the impressions they take from meeting and seeing us,
will in all likelihood be the only time that they ever need to deal with
a transgendered person, if they do deal with another Transgendered
person, a positive experience will go a long way to provide them the
basis of respect for us as a community.

I regret that it was necessary to ask the lady to leave, but I believe
in the spirit of a safer more comfortable DLV it was necessary, again, I
thank the lady for being a grown up in the situation and not making a
scene, that would have a lose-lose for everybody.

Love,

Gina Richards
Sponsor of Charles Bar and assistant in the fashion police at the bar.

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This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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`
I read both "Gina" emails.

> I just can't let go my shock over YOUR (you know who you are) behavior

No, I'm not the one you are referring too by the above statement.

But I was there that night on the bar, having a nice drink and trying to
win on the video poker machine.

To the person and Lady, who was asked to leave, I have the greatest
respect and thank you for your understanding and cooperation and
how you handled the situation with class. I also saw how you were
dressed.

By your actions, you are indeed a very good representative of the Wildside.

DLV is different from Wildside, and we should respect our differences.

This was also a scheduled DLV event. If this person writing
this email was a registered attendee of the DLV, then she should
have known about our guidelines and requirements.

Since you are part of this DLV discussion, you must be a registered
attended and should known about and reviewd the guidelines for
attending DLV events.

Did you invite the members of Wildside to our Charles Bar event?

The person who was asked to leave, her attire was already creating a
reaction by the casino security, and had the potential of negatively
affecting all that were attending the bar at that time including
Wildside, DLV, and a visiting group from England, and possibly ruin the
evening for everyone.

The other Gina reported that the Bartender was called by the casino
security about that person. This gives independent proof that the outfit
this person was wearing was raising the warning flags of security as not
a acceptable outfit to be worn in the Bellagio casino.

What you call the "DLV fashion police" were there to protect the other
attendees at the Allegro (Charles) Bar to prevent possible actions by
the casino. Other attendees did or would have complained about how
this person was dressed to these people you call 'fashion police",
telling them about how that person was dressed, and the negative impact
and attention that person was making on them, trying to enjoy the
event. So it really wasn't someone singling out someone, its more of a
collective group of people that have agreed to dress and behave a
certain way, reporting a violation of an agreed set of guidelines.

The BDR guidelines for DLV are to protect all attendees of DLV and those
around us, so that there is little or no negative impact with
mainstream venues or casinos or other public people in our area.

One reason for the guidelines and requirements are for the LOCALs that
live in LV. Wearing outfits that brings unwanted attention and
negative action by the casino and their security staff will later
reflect upon, and make it more difficult in the future, for the local
trans gendered group to use this venue when we leave.

Trans gendered locals that live in LV have to deal with the results of
our actions on a daily basis. They also use many of the venues DLV
uses, and they will have to live with any negative actions directed
against them that was created during a DLV event. This is one of our
reasons, which is for their safety and continued use of mainstream
venues after DLV is over, that we have dress requirements.

> "Isn't that kinda what being a T is all about? Not following rules & standards
> dictated by conventional wisdom? "

The answer is NO, its not. DLV attendees follow rules and standards
dictated by conventional wisdom. If you are a cross dresser or a trans
sexual, and do not want to follow rules and standards of conventional
wisdom, DLV is not and never has been that.

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This posting is from: Administrator
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>Since you are part of this DLV discussion, you must be a registered
>attended and should known about and reviewd the guidelines for
>attending DLV events.

Point of clarification. ... This forum is open to all who are
interested, not only DLV attendees. Everybody has access to the
forum on the web, via e-mail, and via Yahoo.

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This posting is from: Tricia
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Hi gina. I was at the Charles Bar that night and I believe your actions
in asking Amber from the Wild Side to leave due to her dress was so far
out of bounds and reality as to suggest you need to seek better therapy.
She was in no way dressed as you say. The other Gina who started this
thread, along with more then a few others of our group were dressed much
more provoctively. You do your group a huge disservice by your actions.
I had thought DLV would be a group of accepting and supportive girls,
but appartently I'm wrong. You really, really need to rethink your whole
approach to what is appropriate and socially conforming...especially in
a place like Las Vegas. After viewing the girls associtated with your
group and the actions of "said" enforcer, I can only say I will never be
a part of your group again. The girls from the Wild Side were more then
properlly dressed..which is more then I can say about many of the girls
who I saw attending your party at the Charles Bar..you really do ne
[imput truncated]

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This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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>>Since you are part of this DLV discussion, you must be a registered
>>attended and should known about and reviewd the guidelines for
>>attending DLV events.

>Point of clarification. ... This forum is open to all who are
>interested, not only DLV attendees. Everybody has access to the
>forum on the web, via e-mail, and via Yahoo.

Sorry about that statement. I stand corrected.

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This posting is from: nicole
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The fact of the matter is you chose to hold your function in a public
place and in doing so, you give up the authority to enforce how you
think people should dress or act upon all those around you

You have a vision as to how you think a t-girl should present herself,
that's fine, it's a free country, your entitled. And they are equally as
entitled to present themselves any way they wish. By trying to enforce
your vision of appropriateness on others in a public place, you come off
looking, at its most benign, like board members from the old Harper
Valley PTA song and at its worst, like Nazis

Turn the tables, how would you react if a hotel guest walked up to you
and said they thought you offensive and to leave the hotel?

I can completely understand your wish to present a good image. It was
your event and, quite naturally, you don't want your image tarnished
because of guilt by association assumptions. But again, choose a private
venue and you

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This posting is from: nicole
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I can completely understand your wish to present a good image. It was
your event and, quite naturally, you don't want your image tarnished
because of guilt by association assumptions. But again, choose a private
venue and you can control how people act and dress, choose a public one
and it's just something you have to live with.

Bottom line, you should have stayed out of it. If indeed there had been
a complaint, you should have left it for hotel security to handle.

By the way, I was there too, and to the other Gina, your description
of her attire was totally exaggerated and I find your comment dressed
like hooker to be snide, petulant and uncalled for.

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This posting is from: Gina
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Hi Nicole and others of the Wildside,

To be perfectly honest, I didn't say that your friend was dressed like a
hooker, I said that I had never seen a hooker in a bar dressed that
provocatively, I guess I hang out in classy bars. The outfit that she
was wearing was as I described, I was quite sober that evening and was
trying to greet everybody. I was quite taken aback by your friends
outfit. It retrospect, maybe we should have let hotel security deal
with your friend, but then we all would have suffered and all would have
been the subject of additional scrutiny.

I really hate this kind of bickering, the idea for DLV is to provide a
safe and fun atmosphere for everyone, and that is very difficult and
subject to great subjective interpretation. I offered my assistance
because someone I greatly care for and trust, was totally uncomfortable
with the appearance of your friend. Later, I found out that Casino
Security was concerned.

The idea of hanging out in mainstream places is something that I have
advocated for DLV since the first time I came (many years ago). I hate
dive bars, smoky enclaves of the gay world that I find I have little in
common with, places where wild dress will work anytime. We have a lot
of very insecure people in the group that find it very difficult to deal
with the world in their Femme persona, they do not relish any additional
attention that may be attracted to them. I know I was terrified early
in my existence, I got over it. Our goal is to make these peoples
acceptance of themselves a high priority and do some things that make
that easier.

Obviously, you ladies are comfortable with yourselves, I applaud that,
go party wherever you want, but maybe it would be better that if you
choose to be the DLV crowd, we ask that you respect the guidelines that
are in place to make the events more secure and comfortable for most and
dress a little more conservatively.

Just my opinion.

Gina Richards

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