Bathroom Issue

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This posting is from: annie
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>but really this bathroom thing is so out of control. You are
>scaring the hell out of me and I go out all the time.

It's not our intent to scare the hell out of anybody, but to
impress upon all the importance of using restrooms discreetly
and properly.

Over our 11 years, we've unfortunately had a few very nasty
incidents, and the sad thing is that those who have gotten
the snotty end of the stick, so to speak, are often not those
who were at fault.

Misusing a restroom is a good way to get SOMEBODY ELSE in
trouble!

>Can we cut some of the crap. Station guards and turn girls away!!!

This may seem like crap, and I'm not gonna argue if it is or is
not crap, but if we had done this in 2007, we would have averted
a very ugly incident where, for the first time in our history,
one of our participants was thrown off a casino property by
security.

>How about a clear policy, stated once and end it.

We do have very clear policies. A good summary is here:

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/dress/nutshell.html

>but I truthfully feel we need to make this topic easier and
>less frightening for us new girls.

It should only be frightening for those who don't plan to use
restrooms properly.

Let me summarize what you need to know and do to prevent being
involved in a restroom incident.

1. NEVER NEVER EVER GO TO A PUBLIC LADIES ROOM IN GROUPS!

If our people followed this one rule, most of our restroom
incidents would not have happened.

2. Don't be obvious about it. If the group you're with has
attracted the attention of onlookers, don't waltz right in
to the nearest ladies room!

3. Don't linger, loiter, or horse around in a public ladies
room. Get in, do your business, get out.

If our people would have followed those three rules, over 90%
of our restroom incidents would have never happened!

Trust me, we're not preaching this because we want to be
control freaks. We've seen how devastating these incidents
can be if they happen, and we don't want our attendees'
vacations spoiled, particularly when they are not at fault.

If we would have 2-3 years of no significant incidents, we could
do with a lot less attention to this topic. As long as the
incidents occur, we will do what we need to do to prevent them
before they happen.

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[External Poster]

This posting is from: Judy
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Don't just kick them out of the casino, kick them out of Diva. There's
no excuse for that.

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(This posting was entered by Judy, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
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>Don't just kick them out of the casino, kick them out of Diva.

It's not that easy. The one who was escorted off the property was
actually well-intentioned and trying to stick up for someone who
was ordered out of the restroom. She got a little too assertive
and got bounced.

By the time it takes a complaint to be made and security to
respond, the original perp(s) is/are usually long gone.

In a previous year, we had a couple of our people using a
restroom for something it's not intended for and a complaint
was made to security. Another one of our people who happened
to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and had nothing
to do with provoking the complaint, got the wrong end of
the stick and a very ugly scene ensued. :(

These are two cases where the one who got the shaft was
not at fault.

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This posting is from: Cami Farr
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I haven't attended Diva Las Vegas before and I am very anxious to do so
and meet many of the girls from Vegas and others visiting like I will
be. I also love your posts about the event and look forward to knowing
more, but really this bathroom thing is so out of control. You are
scaring the hell out of me and I go out all the time. Can we cut some
of the crap. Station guards and turn girls away!!! Wow, is that over
controlling?????? How about a clear policy, stated once and end it.
Do check with the hotels and expect us adults to act the part. Please
do forgive me if I sound bitchy, honestly I am not generally. I do
appreciate all you do and will do and have done. Don't take this the
wrong way but I truthfully feel we need to make this topic easier and
less frightening for us new girls. Cami

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[External Poster]

This posting is from: Donna Kowalsky
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Even the new "family restrooms" don't guarantee anything. A few
days ago I tried to use a unisex restroom at the Palazzo. One of
their P.A.D. employees (The Palazzo's term for housekeeping) had
been in the restroom cleaning. I politely asked if she was finished
and she told me that I couldn't use the room if I wasn't
handicapped and she refused to move out of the way. There was no
one else handicapped or otherwise waiting for the room. Not
wanting to cause an incident I calmly walked away and came back a
few minutes later. She was gone and there was another P.A.D. employee
standing there who didn't give me a second look. I went into the
unisex room did my business and left without incident.

Today just a few hours ago I was again at the Palazzo and I went
to the same restroom. Once again there was no one handicapped
or otherwise waiting for the room. I saw her (the same woman)
come out of the room after cleaning and not wanting to confront
her directly I waited until she went into one of the other rooms.
I went into the room did my business and as I came out of the
room (I was in jeans and a jacket not full femme but I was wearing
pink lipstick and light foundation) she was waiting in the hall.
She called me sir and said I should use the men's room because
I wasn't handicapped. I ignored her and walked by her without
saying anything and left.

I was in a hurry and not sure who to ask about it so I waited
until I got home. I called the Palazzo. When I told the person
who answered the phone what had happened today he asked if she
was cleaning and then he connected me to the PAD department.
When the extension answered initially it sounded like someone
had their hand over the phone and was talking to someone. The
person who answered was difficult to understand so I said I'd
call back.

I don't believe I did anything wrong but I'm not sure how to
deal with this. Tomorrow I'm calling a Tfriendly attorney in
town just for advice but I would appreciate any feedback
anyone else has.

Donna

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This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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>You are scaring the hell out of me and I go out all the time.
>Don't take this the wrong way but I truthfully feel we need to
>make this topic easier and less frightening for us new girls.

Hello Cami,

Bathroom/restroom issues can be and are scary.

However, the restroom/bathroom issues are important for the
safety and enjoyment of everyone attending DLV. Its something
that is always a potential issue each DLV.

It's intent, like Annie says, is not to scare you, but to inform
you on how important this issue it is, how to use the public
facilities successfully, and the consequences of bad decisions
and confrontations. Yes its scary for me also, which means
I must be very very careful when using public facilities in LV.
I was also a victim of someone else's restroom issue at the
Boardwalk.

Newbies need to know the truth, with no sweet talk about
this issue, and given the straight facts. We are all adults.
If the newbie doesn't know about this, they will need to know
this by DLV. Scary as it may sound, its the way it is, and
to be educated about this is better for not only for a newbie
but everyone attending DLV.

If the newbie needs help, there is the Big Sister program to
help reduce the fear factor, or to advise them of this issue in
a friendlier way.

DLV may not be for everyone. Its a vacation with events in
mainstream public locations. Using public restrooms is part
of this. If a attendee cannot follow or unable to follow our
guidelines, they can endanger other attendees with their actions,
so maybe for those individuals that cannot or don't want to
follow DLV guidelines, DLV isn't a event they should
attend.

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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
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>(I was in jeans and a jacket not full femme but
>I was wearing pink lipstick and light foundation)

When you say "not full femme", do you mean total
girlmode (presenting as female) but casual, or do you
mean a mixed-mode or androgynous look?

I'll hold my comments on that pending a response. :)

>I don't believe I did anything wrong but I'm not
>sure how to deal with this.

My guess is that you ran into an employee who was
misinformed, poorly trained, had an attitude, or any
combination of the above.

The Palazzo is a new facility, and it may be an
employee training or familiarization issue.

This is the first time I've ever heard of anybody
being denied access to a unisex restroom. IANAL, but
if it was placarded with the M/F icons, with or
without the wheelchair icon, and no "handicapped use
only" such as you might see in a parking lot, it's
intended for use by anyone who wants to use it.

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[External Poster]

This posting is from: Denise McCracken
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When we have a large group at a very public place like a casino (bad
idea), there may be someone near the restrooms checking ID. Some states
will issue you a female driver's license so that you can go out and
drive when you're all gussied up. IANAL, but you might have some fun
acting like you're insulted (but not making a scene), as you show it to
them. You might get an apology, or the boot.

-denise

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[External Poster]

This posting is from: Donna Kowalsky
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> When you say "not full femme", do you mean total
> girlmode (presenting as female) but casual, or do you
> mean a mixed-mode or androgynous look?

Not full femme = Not in a skirt and heels. I had on lipstick and
light foundation and was in jeans and a top.

Another "nice" bit of news to report. I had my name legally changed to
Donna in January. I have several casino players cards in my male name
and as a litmus test of acceptance I have been getting them changed to
Donna. I have had several changed without incident. ( I guess money
talks ;-) ). Up until today the worst that had happened was one place (
The South Point) asked to see something with my old name before they
would change it. Once I showed them my credit card that hadn't had the
name changed yet they gave me a new card. I guess they were sticklers
for the legal end of it but otherwise they were very nice. The Palms
almost wanted the same but after the clerk conferred with her supervisor
she changed it without a fuss and was very nice too.

Now the "nice" news. I went to the Westin Casuarina (nee Maxim on Koval)
Despite having a legally issued license with my new legal name Donna,
the clerk said that because I still had the "M" gender marker they would
not issue me a new card with Donna on it. She even called her supervisor
over and in a rather loud voice they conferred about it in front of me
and said they could not change the name on the card even though NO
casino issues a players card with a gender marker on it.

Oh well the odds in their little casino were lousy anyway

Donna

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This posting is from: annie
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>When we have a large group at a very public place like a casino
>(bad idea), there may be someone near the restrooms checking ID.

I have yet to see somebody at a restroom checking ID, ever.

I know of one case where a guard demanded the ID of one of our
people shortly after a complaint about restroom misuse was made,
and I remember a case of an employee "directing traffic" outside
a restroom at a restaurant, but never and ID check to enter a
restroom.

Should this ever happen, I would say that's the cue to get off
the property.

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(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)