Ages

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Sara P.
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Really.

I am referring to the broad brush stereotype being used here which
implies that young people have little or no cash flow. It is like a
reverse-ageism thing going on (a "get off my lawn" mentality). I know
plenty of young people who are successful, have marvelous jobs and doing
just fine. Heck, those who might be "failing to launch" actually have
lower overhead which means more discretionary income for things such as
travel.

Give me a little credit in fully understanding the struggles of anyone
who is living this 24/7 in the real world. I was never implying that a
narrow "young TG" segment (those who are fairly young, out and
transitioning) is actually part of the young jet-set. I'm not even
certain that this is the type of individual that DLV is trying to
attract in the first place.


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(This posting was entered by Sara P., an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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Sara brings up good points.

Ever watched Bar Rescue? The bar owners who once has a highly successful
bar sees no business or slowing business and doesn't know why.

Many problems begin with the high leadership or owners.

Employees or staff of different areas like kitchen or wait service don't
say anything and many episodes, they are part of the problem. Patrons
don't say anything for they go elsewhere. It finally reaches the
breaking point where a 'outsider' professional has to step in to make
changes, and still some bars don't like the changes and they go out of
business. 'Gipsy' in LV was one of the failures.

No organization is perfect. Same as bars, and if you ever watch that
series, there is the complete range of reactions from hate and anger to
crying and begging for help, and all have similar problems.

Many of the issues DLV has parallels to quite a few of them.

From past experiences on org and disc - seems anyone, ANYONE, that has
negative or even the remotest complaint is verbally and personally
attacked by several ORG leadership people, and the issue they bring up
is never resolved, and it gets worse every year. It has reached the
point where no one wants to speak up. Remember the separate vs group
checks issue? Wonder why the DISC is almost dead.

Talking about how DLV WAS means nothing since its in the past.

What needs to be done is in the today or now.

I'm even hesitant to even bring this up.

Since how your stats are never clarified as how the numbers were
reached, the final numbers mean nothing. 5 people attending a event that
replied to the survey, where 2 out of the 5 may have been the organizers
or all 5 friends of the organizers that will post a high score, doesn't
mean it was a perfect 100% success considering over 160 people supposed
to be attending DLV. It represents only the ones attending, and its less
that 10 percent. For 155 attendees didn't go. I don't think there is
enough of a data pool to even begin any accurate stats. 5 people out of
150 attending -- for it to be 100 percent, it should have 145 or more
taking the survey.

The comments are more important.

Wild Side represents a type of cross dresser group that likes that kind
of party/bar/sexual/exotic type events. They are becoming highly
successful, and have now attracted the 'younger' cder. You can choose to
ignore it, but over 150 pre-paid attendees is something DLV doesn't or
no longer has. Since DLV has moved to a earlier month, Wild Side has
taken over DLV's spot. You can choose to stay with the generation and
your way of having a event, but as the age data shows, it only appeals
to one generation, and what age is it -- the 60s??? How many are
returning, and how many are BORED doing the same thing every year. How
much are the same events recycled or repeated. Most of the time its
drinking and eating. DLV only attracts newbies, and after a few years,
most move on. I see very familiar names now showing on the Wild Side
listing. Wild Side is taking advantage of being in LV - what stays in
LAS VEGAS theme - GAMBLING, PARTY BUS, Room PARTIES, NIGHT CLUBS,
EXPLORING the Casinos, - oh but DLV does things it can do in any other
town -- Ask yourself why Wild Side has attracted more and more younger
cders? Also they do many new activities each year.

Wild Side is even more innovated -- instead of the ID name tags, they
are using Wild Side wrist rubber bands. Less noticeable, more
fashionable and going with what is being used today, but wrist bands
does the same thing and better than Name Tags. At one time Wild Side was
learning from DLV, now its left DLV is the dust. Online registration, a
desk to pick up information packets. Interactive web page with
membership.

DLV registration and really restrictive and subjective regulations that
is up to the organizers have shown to piss off attendees. Look at the
'mask' issue that has appeared over several years now, and the comments
on how its making attendees very uncomfortable and its unsettled. You
give the reason of not speaking up and throw the issue back at the
attendee using 'Oh its up to the organizer of the event.'. The action is
that those individuals will not return. The attendee doesn't care, nor
will they return to be stressed by that kind of situation.

Wild side is for a type of CDer and its not for everyone, including me,
but it appeal is very strong looking at their numbers and organization,
and it doesn't rely on stats either.

One verbal comment was DLV no longer has its creative 'juice' or savy
side nor willing to take chances and having a very restrictive
leadership is why nothing is no longer suggested. Its for a bunch of old
people to eat and get drunk. Harsh statement. Also how much is it really
a vacation, when many activities makes DLV look more and more like a
convention, and for beginners, for they make up most of the attendees.
Experienced cders look elsewhere or go on their own to explore what Las
Vegas has to offer. Take that non-official DLV event.


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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Gina
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Wow, Kumiko, I can't agree with a lot of what you say. DLV is probably
the most transparent organization I've ever been involved with, of
course, I'm one of those evil organizers.

I applaud WildSide, we arranged an overlapping meet one year at Charles
Bar and it was awesome. I think they cater to a bit more active risquC)
griup, which is great. We have totally unrestricted online registration,
no registration fees, nothing but a bunch of venues to hang out in.

DLV is alive and well and I guess we are asking for our own Bar Rescue,
to make sure we stay viable.

Gina


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(This posting was entered by Gina, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Vera Delmar
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Please don't knock people that are in there 60's.... it's a wise lady
who embraces her age and ACTS HER AGE.

Nothing worse than a 60+ lady trying to compete with the younger ladies,
trying to dress like one, and making a big fool out of herself. We have
aged with DLV, and I'm happy for all those years we've made many
memories throughout the years and watched ourselves move through the
ages to where we are now.

If you wish to crush sour grapes and make bitter wine that's fine. For
the rest of us we will continue to enjoy DLV and the events the
organizers come up with... I say there's more to life than just bar
crawling and all that that involves.

Vera


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(This posting was entered by Vera Delmar, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Delaney
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Just an observation on cost - the way DLV is structured, each individual
has a significant ability to control there own expenditures.

While I think it's important to offer the chance for as many as possible
to attend independent of disposable income (or perhaps the willingness
to spend it), I wouldn't make too much of an elephant of the cost issue
the marginal effect DLV can have on an individual's overall expenditure
is small.

Transportation, parking, rental cars are all outside any influence by
DLV, as is time off work. Hotel costs are based on demand in Vegas, and
we already try to schedule around peak weeks, as well as Bev's wonderful
effort in getting group rates at Flamingo.

Two of the evenings this past year (opening and anniversary
celebrations) were held at reasonably priced venues, and no one was
required to eat there in any case, they could opt for McD's beforehand
if they liked. Of the remaining nights, the only one with questionable
cost issues was Tuesday, but the difference between the least, and most
expensive venues was about $50. The daytime events were all quite
reasonable.

If the average is $3000 to attend, I doubt folks are really deciding to
attend, or not, based on the few dollars DLV venue choices can impact.

Again, I'm all for offering choices, but the expectation that Vegas is a
cheap vacation isn't realistic (not even Vegas advertising is geared to
an economical vacation, it's a fun, what happens in Vegas vacation).

I don't know exactly what I spend to come to DLV, $2K-ish most years if
it costs an extra couple of hundred to have a great time, rather than an
average, it's well worth it to me.

Candidly, I attend DLV to see some of the girls I've come to know well,
and to do things that I can't do at home, that is, for the memories. If
I look back at the last year or two, some of my best memories are from
extra events that were more expensive by DLV standards Wayne Newton's,
The BigWheel, a backstage (off schedule) tour. While these were very
clearly enhanced by the company, few go home from Vegas and when asked
what they did, talk about dinner at some generic restaurant.

If we want DLV to grow (or at least not shrink), we have to emphasize
fun events, or special events. See Celine or Britney, goto a tournament
game at UNLV, hit some wonderful nightclubs, try the Las Vegas Symphony,
whatever people find interesting. That's what will keep me coming, not
saving a couple of hundred dollars on the week.


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(This posting was entered by Delaney, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Kumiko Watanabe
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The question was attracting younger attendees. I'm also in the 60s
group.

DLV is what it is. For those that like its format they will attend.
Those that want something else will not. That 'not' is showing itself.

If you want to attract younger attendees you have to change to allow it
to happen.

OR you define DLV more to its demographics that appeals to the older
CDers and keep it as such.

In a nut shell it's the next generation of CDers that is different in
many ways from our generation. It's a classic generation gap. Ie going
to a neighborhood or casino bar to quietly drink or a night club bar to
dance/karaoke/socialize and drink.

Dressing casual or the most exotic short dress and heels. Listening to
the BeeJees vs Lady Gaga or the latest techno hip hop.

Change is never easy. From the leadership side openness can look
different from the openness view of those that just attend where a sign
is the unofficial events that occur that become successful.


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(This posting was entered by Kumiko Watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[steph1957]

Ok, here is 2 cents from the unofficial outside event girl.

I would not change anything in the way you do things now. I met some of the most wonderful girls I could have ever wanted to meet at an event such as this. The diversity was absolutely wonderful. I seen not only people from other parts of the world that share a common interest with us in the way we express ourselves, but I met girls of all ages too. I never expected to see a lot of girls in their 20's, but I met some beautiful women in their 30's and all the way up to others in their later years like myself. There was also diversity in the events that were planned as there should be. Wayne Newton is not my thing but I am glad someone took the time to plan it so that those who were interested could attend. I wish I had gone to the track and drove one of those fun cars but hey, there is always next time. The sex museum didn't really get me excited, go figure right? But I am happy someone took the time to organize it, because I heard some girls talk about how they enjoyed it.
Don't worry so much about what has to be changed to keep this event going. If it works don't try to fix it. Someone will always come along and start something different that will appeal to a few but not to all. I don't think we will ever attract a lot of the 20 year olds, but thats ok too.
Lets keep doing the things that we do well. Volunteer and organize. We have a great thing going and I don't think it will just wither up and come to an end.
Who knows, next year I may organize an outing at a real art studio or something, but then again probably not. Someone has to stir the pot, and I volunteer!

Peace Love Girls

[External Poster]

This posting is from: JB Green
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Sign me Julie Brenda.

I've attended several times, though not recently. I was responsible for
the ballroom dance event some years ago. My next birthday will be number
54.

I had a hard time affording diva when I lived in Las Vegas. I skipped
meals, drinks, and entire events that I was interested in because funds
were tight. I could dress in my home, which was not near the venues, but
a hotel room was unattainable. I did what I could, often while keeping
up on my college studies.

It wasn't until I moved out of Nevada that I uncovered what was wrong
with my SSDI case and refiled and was approved.

But for years they in the Vegas office kept me at bay by asking me to be
patient. After I moved out of Nevada I was obliged to update my address,
which is how I learnt they closed my file.

I moved away for lower cost of living. Coming back for diva might be
possible if I could stay with friends And see medical specialists and
other mitigating factors.

I also have to be up for solo travel, lately I haven't been.

Julie


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(This posting was entered by JB Green, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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I've never said 'evil' - and I checked what I wrote to be sure I didn't.

Openness is a relative term depending on what side of the fence one is
at. For Gina yes, you see it as transparent. Others don't think so. The
thing is many go on with their lives leaving DLV and don't say anything.
Why should they, and get in return attacked in trying to reveal
something that bothers them about DLV, as they see it being done to
others who do say something in the disc emails. Both sides are correct
and I'm not saying one side is wrong, but seems there is more difference
than agreement, and less understanding.

DLV attracts only a portion of the CDing world. Look at the majority of
the stores that cater to CDing, and what kind of clothing they are
selling. You will find fetish, sexual, exotic clothing, corsets, fishnet
stockings, costumes, feather boas. Almost similar to a Sensuously Yours
and a Hot Topic retail outlet. I find better quality and assortment of
wigs at a actual retail wig store than CDing stores. Not many carry
lines like Lane Bryant or brands that are easily found in any major
clothing company like Macy's, JCPenny, Sears. Its more custom fit for
the WS type, so the stereo-type is with those attending WS.

There is also the CDers as Vera said, that don't dress their real age,
and those that want to be drag queens, and many other reasons,
combinations, and sexuality. So yes, DLV has defined the kind of
attendees it wants. WS allows this and has less restrictions on dress
too.

The question of why no or not retaining younger Cders. Look at WS - they
are the ONLY competitors. They have them, and the younger cders are
returning, and all of them pre-pay to attend. Seems cost isn't a issue
or not a problem for those attending the LV WS event, and they return to
have fun the next year for what WS provides.

Individual costs is a concern. It really depends where you are traveling
from, and how much is in one's gross annual income. Living in the 48
continuous states is much less travel issues than compared to the last
two states, or from another country. Add currency exchanges, and
increasing airline costs. Air fare which was in the lower hundreds back
in the 90's are now close to the thousand - and thats just for
traveling. Then one has to deal with housing and ground transportation,
and basic food or dining costs. Its easier on those that live in
neighboring states like CA, Utah, Arizona, NM, Idaho. But how come WS is
more expensive and have more attending... obviously money isn't a issue.

But before all that, its why attend. I'm already factoring in re-joining
friends that have met during DLV. I'm not even touching that one. WS
already has that one down too - with returning people and the active
chat/posts on their web site.

One not so good generation factor. Many (not all or everyone) of the
next generation, and speaking from hiring next-gen people, their
expectations are different, where its what someone-else is to provide
for them and not by them. Basically they want to be served than being
the servant or organizer. IF they have to do it themselves, they don't
need DLV for them to go out and have fun on their own. Being among their
age group/peers/generation is a big issue too- who wants to be with a
bunch of people that are their parent's age. WS is the age of the next
generation, and its has a base organization too that sets the events
activities.

What does the current young adults do in LV. As what they do on Bar
Rescue - they determine the popular hang-out places for local area young
people, and their behavior to determine what kind of bar would draw them
into the bar. Then offer it as a draw to bring them into the changed
bar. For DLV, a twist, do this as a opportunity to do it in Femme mode.
Example WS - party bus instead of a limo tour. How about night-clubbing
but start earlier in the evening as the major event of that day than
just late at night.

Having a slot tournament has been a comment for several years. If one
venue allows it for DLV, have a slut and slot tournament. A chance to be
dressed in exotic if the venue allows it, so be a Diva and possibly make
money at the same time.

If there are enough girls, go as a group and ask a pit boss to open a
craps $5 minimum bet table. Probably 10 gals or more that will gamble
would be good for it will cover the table and the workers, but to throw
dice in femme mode? How many have done that? Have the whole craps table
surrounded with gambling CDers. Throw the dice showing off the nails,
rings, bracelet, and do it gracefully without the boobs moving around
too much or the wig falling off. Also learn and hopefully have fun
playing craps as a girl.


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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

[Michelle V]

Don't tweak anything. Diva is fine the way it is. I would be more regular if only there were more reasonable price air tickets and deals on rooms like you used to have.

This conversation is hard to follow but I have not been online here for about a week. One obvious thing your not bringing up is that younger gurls, at least those who do dress up, usually pass a lot better and don't need to go to Diva to get out. You all know that gurls who can pass have it a lot easier both in transgender community and real life. Young and passing and you start out from second base.