DLV 2008 survey report, part 3, comments

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This posting is from: Mary Beth
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Hi, Mary Beth again...

>+This one "LADY" told us flat-out that "SHE" had no intent to sit
>to urinate. SHAME! Don't you consider your sisters at all?

Not only that, it shows incredible inconsideration for the GG's in
the bathroom. Let's face it, with nearly all of us having been
raised male, we never had to consider for a moment the possibility
of rape in a public space, especially in a bathroom. The last thing
a woman wants to hear in the next stall is the very male sound of
urination hitting the toilet water from three feet above the bowl.
The attitude reported above disgusts me to no end.

>Several of our people have been passive victims over the years,
>and when this happens it is embarrassing at best, and often very
>devastating.

This happened to me this year when someone I gave a ride to
decided to stand to pee in the women's room. I did nothing
wrong, but was escorted off the premises. It was humiliating.
Don't assume that because you think the women's room is empty,
that it is indeed empty.

>Nobody's really said much about the goth/punk look. It's coming,
>fasten your seat belts! :)

There is a fun nightspot called the Beauty Bar which is a half-block
west of Fremont Street, just past that abandoned Cyclorama thing
(or whatever it is they call it). It is populated by goths and
punks. I've gone there each of the past three years without
incident. The goths are incredibly cool, mostly because they
consider themselves to be outcasts, misfits and freaks. Their
attitude is the more the merrier. And the corsets are to die
for.
And you should see what the girls are wearing.....

>SHAME on those who would go and represent us badly at the
>Bellagio of all places. Don't you care for anyone but yourself?
>Dressing like a "HO" casts us all in a bad light! Think of your
>sisters next time! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

I couldn't have said this better myself. The Bellagio is a class
act, and beyond our group, I'd hate to see the local girls banned
from the place.

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(This posting was entered by Mary Beth, an external user of MyDLV.)

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This posting is from: kumiko yvonne watanabe
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>+The onoy issue I have was with the improper behavior of some
>+of the attendees - There is no place at Diva for participants
>+to make out, Feel each others boobs and engage in simulated sex
>+acts in a mainstream venue.

I actually observed some of this at the Blue Ox - Welcome Celebration
when standing in line to getting my dinner. Most had gotten through the
line at that time.

The 'couple' groping boobs and other body parts, kissing all over the
face and neck, was also standing in line with me for the buffet dinner.
They couldn't keep their hands off each other.

I wasn't sure if it was our dlv group, or a couple that had also paid
for the buffet dinner but not part of DLV. In the darkened room, its
hard to see if one is wearing the newly issued (that night) name tags.
We had other people in the Blue Ox that wasn't part of DLV, just public
patrons. Their faces may have looked familiar, but since its been a
year, I wasn't sure.

>> I heard a second-hand report of this incident in person at DLV.

I also heard a second hand report of a separate incident, that was
a in-appropriate lap dance that night at the Blue Ox.

>> This (making out, groping, etc.) is not appropriate behavior
>>for DLV.

Provided we are sure that they were DLV attendees.

I don't have a copy of the large mail sending, but is this listed
someplace in the the BDR or some other document that is about kissing
and 'petting' or making out? I'm not sure, so if someone knows, I'd
appreciate it.

If not, maybe we need to make this point clearer or more easily
seen or read and understood.

> It's been well-established by precedent that anyone, not just
> organizers and volunteers, can confront those who are carrying
> on and tell them to knock it off or take it elsewhere.

Though it bother me a bit, it wasn't enough for me to be really
uncomfortable. If that couple was in love with each other that much,
and still had their clothes on, its their business. Yes, the comment
"get a room" came to mind, but that was about it. Looking around it
wasn't disturbing anyone, if they were even looking. Most people
around the buffet line was busy in their own conversations. If it
deeply bothered others, I didn't see anyone like that in the crowd.

But what level is acceptable and what isn't? I see alot of hugging and
embracing when people greet each other, esp at the welcome celebration
when one hasn't seen others for at least 1 year. I've also seen it when
I was in Gipsy's several DLVs ago by attendees. It didn't seem to
bother anyone at all when I was observing those around them.

I can see lap dancing or simulated sex acting out in a booth as a worser
problem, but I didn't see it first hand.

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(This posting was entered by kumiko yvonne watanabe, an external user of MyDLV.)

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This posting is from: annie
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> I wasn't sure if it was our dlv group, or a couple that had
> also paid for the buffet dinner but not part of DLV.

Yes, it was DLV people. One was named to me by one of the other
volunteers after the fact. I didn't observe it at any other DLV
activities afterward.

> I also heard a second hand report of a separate incident, that was
> a in-appropriate lap dance that night at the Blue Ox.

I didn't hear about this part. It may have all been included in
the general report of extended kissy-face and touchie-feelie.

> I don't have a copy of the large mail sending, but is this listed
> someplace in the the BDR or some other document that is about kissing
> and 'petting' or making out? I'm not sure, so if someone knows, I'd
> appreciate it.

It's not specifically mentioned, and IMAO it does not need to be.

It's one of those standards of public conduct, unwritten, but
universally understood. It's also well-established by precedent,
back to 1999, that it is something that's not wanted at DLV
activities.

> But what level is acceptable and what isn't? I see alot of hugging and
> embracing when people greet each other, esp at the welcome celebration

It should be obvious, really, where the line is to be drawn.

Anybody should know the difference between a congenial embrace,
a lapdance, and foreplay!

> I've also seen it when I was in Gipsy's several DLVs ago
> by attendees. It didn't seem to bother anyone at all when

Ya know, it a place like Gipsy, you can almost expect that to
happen semi-regularly. I might even go as far to say that it's
arguably appropriate at a place like that.

However, our Welcome Celebration is not an activity where the
purpose is to find someone to wake up with!

Should things like this happen again, I think a very assertive
"Get a room!" hint would be appropriate. If that's ignored, or
worse, the Happy Couple gets hostile, then one or more of the
organizers should be brought into the loop.

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(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

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This posting is from: Joan Dupree
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> There is a fun nightspot called the Beauty Bar which is a half-block
> west of Fremont Street, just past that abandoned Cyclorama thing

Why not make it a DLV activity?

>>SHAME on those who would go and represent us badly at the
>>Bellagio of all places. Don't you care for anyone but yourself?
>>Dressing like a "HO" casts us all in a bad light! Think of your
>>sisters next time! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

> I couldn't have said this better myself. The Bellagio is a class
> act, and beyond our group, I'd hate to see the local girls banned
> from the place.

Yes Bellagio is a class act and I'm somewhat regular there. Now I doubt
Bellagio (or any major property for that matter) would enact a wholesale
ban on transgenders entering upon the property. I'm sure some of these
properties employ transgenders. But we always want to put our best foot
( or should I say pump) forward. I do.

Blessings. J.

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(This posting was entered by Joan Dupree, an external user of MyDLV.)