Getting arrested (repost)

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This posting is from: shannon evans
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Wow! can you really get arrested for using the ladies room?
and is this something that has ever happened at dlv? Is one
casino, like the imperial palace, safer than others for trips
to the ladies room?

What about using restrooms when we go out to nice dinners or
"high tea"? Am I just being paranoid? Getting arrested would
end my career and my life as I know it.

Shannon

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This posting is from: Denise McCracken
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You can get arrested for anything, or nothing at all, no matter where
you are or how you're dressed. Just don't give a police officer or
casino staff a hard time, and you'll be fine. Our experience has been
that the casino staff will side with the person who is not making
trouble, regardless of how they're dressed, but I would still recommend
going kind of casual in the casinos, just like all of the other women
do, so you don't stand out and invite someone to give you trouble.

-denise

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This posting is from: annie
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>Wow! can you really get arrested for using the ladies room?

There appears to be no simple YES or NO answer on this. Sorry
this is long, but this is a common concern and there is much
misinformation about the topic being spread around as fact.

First, let's re-read Lori's remark, which is often misunderstood:

+>Well here's the catch....the law does not exactly say that.
+>Let me explain. Every state has a statue on the books called
+>"DISORDERLY CONDUCT"..

What Lori said, is very much in line with what my personal
attorney told me just prior to DLV 1999, and also what a local
Las Vegas Metro PD officer told one of our local people many
years ago.

According to my attorney, and according to this LVMPD officer,
there's no Nevada Revised Statute, Clark County Code, or Las
Vegas Municipal Code which explicitly outlaws somebody who has
the XY genetics from using the restroom of their choice in most
locations in Las Vegas.

(Yes, there is a persistent rumor that there is such a law, and
this rumor appears to come from a deeply-buried public park
regulation that covers facilities in parks only.)

However, as Lori said, my attorney stated that there are some
general and specific "laws of public conduct" which could be
used for a summons or even an arrest should there be a complaint.

Two examples he used, and I can remember these almost verbatim.

1. If you refuse to leave a property when told to do so, or even
a portion of a property that you have been told not to use, you
may be guilty of trespass.

2. If you create a fuss when told to leave a restroom, or when
told to leave a property, or even passively create a fuss under
certain circumstances, you may be guilty of disorderly conduct.

The bottom line is that there's no specific law that outlaws
using the restroom of your choice, but there's nothing on the
books that asserts or protects your rights to us the restroom
of your choice.

He went on to state that the use of most private property in Las
Vegas, even though it may be "open to the public", is "at will"
of the management, and that yes, if they want to, they can legally
say that you are not to use a particular restroom, or even
something like a particular gaming table, or go as far as to
ban you from the property entirely.

>and is this something that has ever happened at dlv?

The worst that we've ever had happen is that one of our people
was escorted off of a property, and this was after she created
a fuss about it. Yes, this could have been escalated into a
citation for disorderly conduct, but they very seldom do that.
They just want the situation to go away. Others who were asked
to leave the restroom at that particular time were not thrown
off of the property.

>Is one casino, like the imperial palace, safer than others
>for trips to the ladies room?

Not really. From experience over the past 11 years, the most
risky are the cases where the usage is obvious. One or more
of our people gets the attention of onlookers, and then one
or more conspicuously march right into a nearby ladies room.
This is asking for a complaint!

The one action that's resulted in the most incidents is using
public restrooms in groups! >>SPANK!<< We've been admonishing
our people to avoid this over and over since the early days
of DLV and it still occasionally happens, and when it does,
there is often an incident!

>What about using restrooms when we go out to nice dinners or
>"high tea"?

As long as you use them INDIVIDUALLY and NONOBVIOUSLY, you run
very little risk of getting into an incident.

>Am I just being paranoid?

No, you're being cautious. If all others would be just as
cautious, and use common sense and good judgement, we would
have very few incidents! I'll go as far as to say that every
restroom incident that I'm aware of except one has been the
result of one (or more of) our people failing to use common
sense and good judgement.

I would offer the following for suggested reading:

1. The new "In A Nutshell" summary of our Behavior, Dress,
and Restroom guidelines:

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/dress/nutshell.html

2. The full official "DLV Restroom Guidelines" page:

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/dlvrestr.html

3. The long-standing "About Restrooms" page:

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/rroom.html

In fact, I would say that this is highly suggested reading
for anybody who will be joining us, newcomers and returnees.

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This posting is from: Norma Posy
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I am a full-time trans-woman. I have used public women's
lavatories in all sorts of places, including various casinos
while attending DLV. It helps that my appearance is quite
"normal".

I believe the guidelines on this subject, as provided here by
DLV, are excellent, and should be carefully read by anyone who
is new at this.

More generally, using public lavatories falls into two categories:

(1) I am in a public place surrounded by strangers.

(2) I am in a public place, at some sort of social function,
surrounded by people who are very much aware of who and what
I am.

Case (1) is not a problem. I just go in, get rid of some used
coffee, and get out. Look other women in the eye and smile. Don't
get into a conversation, and don't linger. For someone like me,
I carry myself as female all day long, so I am not really
"play-acting".

Case (2) is a bit stickier. I associate in various social gro
[message truncated due to web interface limit]

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This posting is from: Diana
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First off, Hi everyone from Leah..... I haven't been on for awhile.

Over the last year and a half or so I have been working in the
casino industry. Not Security, but I have gotten to know a lot
of them.

One thing that might ease some of the girls minds is that
Security does not want to have to call the police for anything
and will only do so as a last resort. In fact, Metro Police
won't even respond to a disorderly conduct. That is left up
to Security to handle and most likely all they will do is escort
you off the property. I've seen it a dozen times in other
situations that I would rank much higher than a DLVer using the
ladies room.

As stated by someone, your best course of action is to remain
courteous and not argue the point with them. Using the 'This
is who I am and I'll do what I want' card is not going to work.
They know they have every legal right to ask anyone to leave
for any reason and aren't worried that you are going to try and
sue them or whatever. So my suggestion is that if you find
yourself in that kind of situation just shrug it off as a bad
experience and move on. I basically just wanted to let the newer
girls know that you are 99.9% sure of not getting arrested if you
are found out using the ladies room. But by all means I am not
implying that you flaunt it at all..... following the basic DLV
guidelines is best.

On another topic ..... the Monorail now has a $9.00 all day pass,
down from I think $12.00 previously. Most of the stops require
a decent walk to get to the hotel so if you are in heels you
might want to be aware of that.

One other note for the newcomers who might be anxious about
walking thru the casinos during the week. Believe me, no one
is looking for you or at you specifically. I've had plenty
of time to observe people walking along the floor and in most
cases they seem to be mindlessly roaming around and not paying
attention to what is around them. It's kind of like keeping
up your speed on the freeway with the rest of the cars, keep
moving and you won't be noticed. Does anyone remember the make
and color of the car that was next to them at the last stop light?

See you all soon......

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This posting is from: Denise McCracken
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>They know they have every legal right to ask anyone to leave
>for any reason and aren't worried that you are going to try
>and sue them or whatever.

What if you're staying there? Do they kick you out in the street
with your bags, or just out of the casino area?

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(This posting was entered by Denise McCracken, an external user of MyDLV.)

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This posting is from: Mary Beth
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Safe 2 Pee has a listing on their website of gender-free / unisex
bathrooms:

http://safe2pee.org/beta/mapit.php?city=las%20vegas&state=nv

Probably the best thing to do is ask a facility if they have a unisex
bathroom. Some places now have single seat "Family Bathrooms" for
parents with young children.

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(This posting was entered by Mary Beth, an external user of MyDLV.)