[dlvorg] Updates, bars, clubs, restaurants, hotels, tours ...

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This posting is from: Diva Las Vegas organizers
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In this mailing:

Org List
Updates
Real GLBT Bars vs Imaginary Ones
Restaurant venue
I met a girl at the Rainbow Bar
Event Hotel and limits
Wifi and Air Tours
Another activity
Hotel nomination
Summary schedule of activities
Administrivia
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Org List:

This is the DLV 2005 Organizational Mailing List (dlvorg@geekbabe.com)
Replies to this message will be forwarded to the DLVORG list and not
the DLV-Announce or DLV-Discuss list.

Ongoing activity database appears on the web at:
http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/org05arc/acts.html
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Updates:

The Boardwalk has been nominated as a candidate for one of our suggested
hotels. (see below)

Bellagio fans, IP fans, San Remo fans, others if you want to see your
fave hotel up for vote for either our suggested hotels or our Event
Hotel<tm>, please nominate it. Just send in a note to that effect or
reply to this mailing and say so.
. . . . .

Lots of good discussion in the Discussion Forum regarding the hotels
and the recurring LW(o)G.
. . . . .

I'm thinking of either holding off on a September-October general
mailing, maybe a combined Sep-Oct-Nov one around the middle of October
or skipping the Sep-Oct mailing entirely. There just isn't anything so
far in the queue, and I don't forsee any major announcements in the next
few weeks.
. . . . .

Those who thought our attention to behavior and restroom issues was a
bit extreme should probably read the note posted to the discussion forum
yesterday. We're not the only group having these issues, and we're also
not the only group whose members have needed some guidelines.

Due to some editing issues, the lead-off item in this thread had the
"Buffet" subject when sent out to the mailing list, but has the correct
subject on the web.

One item in that thread may also have been sent out in duplicate to the
mailing list.
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Real GLBT Bars vs Imaginary Ones:

Tina writes:

>>+Eliminate the Las vegas Lounge and spotlight. replace these with more
>>+mainstream activcities. ...

>>+higher class bars, or even better class gay or lesbian bars.

>The problem is, I don't think that the people asking for these
>higher-class, but quieter GLBT bars understand very much about the bars
>in Vegas. There really aren't many upscale GLBT places like that. And
>none that are quiet and uncrowded and upscale all at once. Except
>maybe for the wet bar in your hotel room at the Bellagio.

>>+I find the two bars, Flex and Goodtimes to be too dark and too loud.

>Hmm, too dark. Bars that are too dark. Must've been someone without
>wrinkle concerns who can stand the neon and strobe lights. :-)

>Too loud. Well, you've got me there. I don't know of a single GLBT
>library bar or fern bar in Vegas. Manhattan yes, even Houston, but not
>in Vegas. Anyone else know of any?

>Gipsy is certainly a very nice place, and is very quiet (for a dance
>club) if you go when nobody is there. But you won't have much fun
>standing around in an empty club. Go at normal times, and it will be
>crowded.

>Same for that fairly nice place across the street whose name I have a
>mental block on. You know, the one that wouldn't let us use the ladies
>room so many years ago, so that we wouldn't keep offending the
>lesbians.

>But we keep hearing that they're much better now, and so we've (sorta)
>forgiven them. It is nice inside, and not crowded during non-peak
>hours. What's that place called?

Freezone. We used it for our Sunday happy hour last year. We did have a
fair crowd, no incidents, staff was friendly. It was rated somewhat
lower than our other bar activities for some reason I don't understand.

Personally I didn't notice anything that would cause a relatively low
rating.

>Skipping over the LVL, and turning to the Spotlight, it's a very plain
>and simple place (one of the older gay bars in Vegas, or so I'm told),
>but if you go on a non-event night, it is very quiet there. I've been
>able to hold normal conversations there many times at 10 PM, 11 PM, and
>midnight. I find its Commercial Center location and proximity to other
>gay bars in the area to be very handy.

>I don't know what to say when people say they don't like Goodtimes. I
>wasn't there for 2004, but have been there several times per year from
>1997 to 2003 (DLV and personal). Go there about 1 AM (except on beer
>bust night). It's quiet as a tomb. In the early evening, it's a nice
>relaxing place. The regulars are fairly friendly to visitors.

I guess we'll have to say that bars are like hotels are like buffets, in
that no bar will be liked by all, and we may have to agree to disagree
on which ones are the best ones to use. Fortunately during DLV we don't
have to limit our use to one and only one bar or type of bar.

I think that maybe the term "upscale" as used here maybe meant more like
"trendy", meaning the GLBT equivalent of the trendy het places at the
newer casinos. There very well may be such a place in LV by next DLV.
See item below (or above). It's my impression, however, that such a
place is more aimed at the twentyboppers.

Personally, I'm hard-pressed to find anything wrong with Goodtimes. Bars
are dark and sometimes smoky, bartenders are overloaded during peak
hours, the Pope is Catholic and bird doo falls from the sky. (Or maybe
we should rewrite that great tautology of life to say that detritus and
various drek falls from the Monorail.) :)

I dunno if it's the blue collar side of my family showing thru, but I
feel right at home at places like Flex or Spotlight. They are not fancy,
but they're comfortable places with decent drink prices.

Both Goodtimes and Flex had construction going on during the last DLV,
so that may have contributed to the atmosphere, or lack of.

And yes, let's skip over the LVL, figuratively and literally. :)

>I guess that leaves the annual discussion about GLBT places vs
>mainstream places.

>I think it's great that everybody is having a good time at Charles Bar
>at the Bellagio. Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that
>generally happening just once or twice per week, and then around 1 AM
>or 2 AM to decrease the hassle factor?

It has been only once each year in 2003 and 2004. Reason for the timing
is that Charles starts his shift at something like 1:00am.

>Also, really, that has generally only been about 10 to 20, right?

Maybe 10-15 or so in the Charles Bar at most. We did have more of our
people on the property at the front casino bar who were confused as to
where to go and chose to stay at that bar instead.

It's still my impression that the Bellagio and the Charles Bar are
outside the comfort zone of maybe half or so of our attendees.

>>+Schedule more of the group social time at Casino and mainstream bars
>>+rather than neighborhood gay bars.

>Take a look at any of our big group pictures from previous years, and
>then picture in your mind herding that group of 50-75 people into a
>mainstream places like Caesar's at 8 PM. Gee, we should sell tickets.
>We'll need to, to pay for the paramedics to revive the newbies who die
>of fright. And for the damages to pay for the fights that break out.

>Am I the only one who remembers how many of our people freaked out
>about having to stand in line at SGOM 2003 for a mere 15 or 20 minutes
>in partially plain sight? And you want to put these folks smack dab in
>the middle of a mainstream place?

I remember hearing of line anxiety for both the impromptu preview of
SOM in 2002 and the Saturday show in 2003.

>Of course, you are always free to double track a mainstream place any
>time you would like. Pick a day, pick a time, pick a place.

Two-tracking some activities possibly offers the best of both worlds,
and I can see this as an option for some bar sessions, even such things
as daily happy hour. However, this precludes one goal for a few of our
functions which is to get as many of the group together in one place at
one time. (Welcome Celebration, Annual Mixer, Max-Turnout EON, etc.)

>My question is: as a DLV organizer, are YOU going to take
>responsibility for the comfort factor and safety of the DLV girls
>who show up?

As for comfort, I think it's a no-brainer to say that as the perception
of comfort and safety diminishes, so will our turnout. There have been
countless reports over the years of anxiety walking thru hotel lobbies,
into casinos, lines at buffets, and even entering our "safest" venues
such as Goodtimes and Hamburger Mary's. A fair percentage of our group
will always feel a small to significant degree of unease in any public
setting.

Some admit this, some disavow it vehemently, but I do believe that
perceived comfort is one of the primary factors which determines turnout
at our activities and at DLV as a whole.

And then there's the restroom factor in these hypothetical mainstream
venues. {Grabbing can of worms, walking toward can opener ...}

Anyway, thanks for the discussion, Tina, I hope others will join in on
this, and I hope the members of the Mainstream And Upscale camp will
share their thoughts as well.
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Restaurant venue:

Nora writes:

>Last night Mindy and I went to the Bahama Breeze restaurant for dinner.
>Mindy spoke to the restaurant manger about the possibility of our
>group dining at the restaurant during Diva.

>The manger was very receptive. He told Mindy that we could order of the
>regular menu and pay individually. He asked us to check back with him
>about a month before Diva to confirm and to see menu samples.

>The Bahama Breeze is a moderately prices restaurant (Entrees. 12-20
>dollars) located on Paradise and Flamingo. ONE block from the Hard
>Rock.

>The restaurant is larger than the Hard Rock and can easily handle our
>group. There is even a side room that can accommodate a large group.
>Normally there is an extra charge for use of this side room but we
>could talk to him about this if we use it.

>We could use the restaurant either as a group dinner similar to the
>Hard Rock and Carluccio's or it could be used as one of the
>restaurants should we decide to have a night of choice of several
>places.

>How do you feel about this?

Basically, I'm all for it. It's up to you and/or Mindy whether you want
to coordinate a large group thing or test it out with a smaller group as
an option for Eating Out Night.

If they allow the people to order off the menu and pay individually, I
don't see how anybody could gripe about a limited selection or the group
meal gouging thing. Sounds like the best of both worlds. :)

Thanks to you and Mindy for making the contact. I do think this has
potential either way.
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I met a girl at the Rainbow Bar:

>>1. A FI theme club downtown in the vicinity of 3rd. and Carson/Bridger.

>This is Celebrity. I've heard their financing fell through.

Actually, I know something (not much) about this one. A guy named Troxel
(Troxell?) out of Dayton wants to open a Las Vegas branch of his club in
Dayton. I haven't heard anything on this for some time now. I know that
there was a big fur over him being cold-shouldered by the Neon(fl)opolis
management people. (Actually, their FORMER management.) :)

If they don't have the $$$, that's probably why nobody has heard
anything new about it recently. :)

>>2. An "Alternative" nightclub in the (Aladdin/Planet Hollywood) and

>This is Krave. Opens next month. They want the Gypsy crowd.

It will be very interesting to see how such a place makes it with the
new Planet Hollywood environment. From this and what I heard last week,
this seems like the most likely on this list to really happen. This may
be one to look at for some kind of a DLV 2005 activity. Maybe a second
stop for the traditional Dance Night. (Tina, you listening in?)

>>3. A new large GLBT-theme bar/club/restaurant in Commercial Center.

>This is the Rainbow Bar. Old Cobalt. I've heard their financing is
>shakey too.

"She took me back to the Hyatt House. {I really don't wanna talk about
it.}" :) :) :)

But seriously, if this one really happens, I can see it potentially
being a popular DLV place, especially if it has food service.

>>4. An upscale "well-financed" "somewhere between downtown and the

>I think this is actually the Rainbow Bar.

>>5. (But wait, there's more! This just in.) The opening/reopening of a
>>new club in the Triangle district. Maybe a new Sasha's/Tramps?

>No, this is Ultima or Ultimate, something like that, old Icon. This has
>allegedly happening some time now.

>Haven't heard anything about Trampps.

Thanks for the updates. I guess we'll just have to wait until closer to
DLV to see if any of these will be options for us.

Ya know, if half of these places actually materialize, it may indeed be
the case that the supply (of bars) exceeds the demand for them, and
there may be another shakeout. I'm sure that Goodtimes, Flex, Spotlight
and Freezone are so entrenched that they will survive, but we've seen
Angles/Icon (Ikon?) become the proverbial Dream Cafe and a couple cycles
at Tramps/Sashas, along with some flashes-in-pans such as Wet.
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Event Hotel and limits:

Tawni writes:

>Hi there! I have a few items to comment on.

>First, speaking somewhat on behalf of the Salt Lake City girls, we
>stayed at the Sahara for a full week during DLV'04 and had a most
>pleasant stay with only a minor dispute that management promptly took
>care of. So, with prices in mind and the Sahara's history with DLV, I
>vote to consider the Sahara as the Event Hotel.

Sahara is in nomination, and so is the Boardwalk as of this week.

You'll have a chance to vote on the record for the Sahara in a couple
months. :)

I would encourage others who have comments (positive or negative) about
the various hotels to please get them into discussion.

>Also, your thoughts as to the average age group and the strain of
>trying to attend all or most of the events, it can be somewhat
>problematic and stressful but, IMHO, I believe we all go to have a good
>time at DLV and as with any vacation, there's bound to be a "do it all"
>syndrome that necessitates prioritizing selected events and thus each
>of us needs to consider our 'burn-out limit'.

Until last year, our schedule was not so full as to prevent those who
wanted to do everything from doing most everything. I think for this
coming year we need to emphasize that it is not intended for any one
person to do everything, and even give some advance warnings of the
likely trouble spots.

>Also, as one of the coordinators for the Ballroom Dance event, I agree
>with the change of days so as not to conflict with the golf events as
>Barb, also a coordinator) and I are planning on playing in the golf
>event(s) and would hate to miss either.

>I may have missed the post where Michelle joined in as a BR coordinator
>and was hoping you could provide info as to her email address so I can
>contact her.

I've sent a note to all of those I have on record as wanting to
coordinate the ballroom thing. Please let us know if you need any
assistance or direction from me or from the group here.

>Thanks for all your efforts and the time and trouble I know you have
>with doing all this, you are doing a FABULOUS job!

You're very welcome {blush} and thank YOU for taking an active part
in planning DLV! :)
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Wifi and Air Tours:

>>Speaking of Internet, they tell me (the ubiquitous "they") that both
>>Imperial Palace and Stardust now have property-wide WIFI

>WTF is a WIFI?

Wireless Internet. Many hotels are going to it, in addition to or in
place of hardwired ethernet to the rooms. There's almost always a
per-day or per-hour fee.

It's also at the Las Vegas Convention Center and (at least) the C
concourse at McCarran Airport.

They tell me (the ubiquitous "they") that the trend of the hotel
industry will be to offer this free to guests, as opposed to an extra
charge.
. . . . .

Air Tours:

>>Ok, just gimme a day and time ... :)

>Geez, we go through this every year. OK, how about Wed. morning at
>8am?

Ok, Wednesday, 8:00am. :)

>>>americansoapbox.org

>>Hey, that car looks familiar! :)

>And what a shameless plug, putting it in my signature...but that was
>how I found out about it.

Oh, you found out about it from your .sig, huh? :) :)
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Another activity:

Densie writes:

>I would like to propose that we do the Secret Garden and Dolphin
>Habitat at the Mirage.

>Anyone interested? It's open 11-5 every day except Wednesday.

It's now on the proposed list. Just pick a time and date and it will be
on the schedule.
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Hotel nomination:

LeeAnna writes:

>I suggest the Boardwalk for a List hotel.

Nominated hotels for DLV 2005 are now, in order of nomination:

Sahara
Boardwalk

Any more?

Comments?

Discussion?
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Summary schedule of activities:

Highly tentative, subject to change.

Sunday, April 24:
AM Religious services (Metropolitan Community Church - SV)
6:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)
Ev Welcome Celebration (Bar, club)

Monday, April 25:
10:00am Death Valley Tour (Death Valley National Park - MS)
1:00pm Lunch With (or without) Ginger (TBD)
2:00pm Walk Off Your Lunch (TBD)
PM Bowling (TBA)
6:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)

Tuesday, April 26:
10:30am Lake Mead Boat Cruise (Lake Mead - MS)
1:00pm Lunch With (or without) Ginger (TBD)
2:00pm Walk Off Your Lunch (TBD)
6:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)
Ev Night Of The Soiled Doves II (CR - SV)

Wednesday, April 27:
8:00am Air Tours (Airport - MS)
1:00pm Lunch With (or without) Ginger (TBD)
2:00pm Walk Off Your Lunch (TBD)
2:30pm Ballroom Dance Instruction (Dance studio - MS)
6:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)
Ev Eating Out Night (Several)
Ev Maximum turnout get-together (TBD)

Thursday, April 28:
10:00am Art Tour (Museum(s) - MS)
1:00pm Lunch With (or without) Ginger (TBD)
2:00pm Walk Off Your Lunch (TBD)
6:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)
Ev Pity Party (TBA)
Ev Limo Tour (Vegas, baby! - MS)

Friday, April 29:
11:00am Shopping trip (Mall(s) - MS)
1:00pm Lunch With (or without) Ginger (TBD)
2:00pm Walk Off Your Lunch (TBD)
6:00pm Happy Hour (TBD)
Ev Annual Mixer (TBD)

Saturday, April 30:
AM-PM Garden Party (TBD)
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Administrivia:

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(This posting was entered by Diva Las Vegas organizers, an external user of MyDLV.)