My comments on the comments ...

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Ginger
----------

Some comments below:

>For the activity suggestions and such, you'll notice that I'm
>once again repeating the same thing, broken record style (stuck
>CD?), that reiterates that almost anything you want to be part
>of DLV can very easily be part of DLV. You have the power to
>make these things happen.

The schedule can usually hold more activities any day or night and there
are few limits on what's acceptable as an activity as long as it's legal
and can be organized by the organizer. Activities that require up-front
payment are somewhat self-limiting. Since there is no treasury and no
universal registration fee there are no funds for events other than what
individuals pay directly to a vendor or pay indirectly through a host or
hostess who collects the funds and pays for all participants in advance.

Annie and others can also comment on this, but experience shows very
costly activities are poorly supported as are activities that require
payment far in advance. This limits, for example, participation in many
newer theater shows that are (1) expensive and (2) require reservations
months in advance.

I see no practical way to get tickets together unless there are groups
of participants who know and trust each other well enough to empower
someone in the group to order and pay for the tickets up front. Given
the cost of tickets that requires a fair amount of trust as tickets are
typically non-refundable. The group seating thing is one reason I
selected Menopause as the show for Wednesday night -- the seating there
was general admission. Even then although my partner and I arrived early
and attempted to hold several seats open for others, those who attended
sat everywhere and we didn't see any of them except before we went into
the show and when we came out!

>If you want to see more mainstream options, please do some
>homework and seek out venues which satisfy the criteria of
>being "mainstream" and are indeed accepting.

>Blue Ox is a good example of this. So is Bahama Breeze. What
>we call the Charles Bar is another, assuming some don't spoil
>it for all of us.

>And if you don't think this has happened, spoiling that is, it
>already happened with another venue. :( For a couple years we
>used a nice little very mainstream bar and grill in the vicinity
>of Pecos and Flamingo. They valued our business, and TG business
>in general for a while until -- you guessed it -- a few
>inconsiderate dorks ruined it for all of us!) :(

I will not mention the name of the place, but I was the one who received
the news we were not welcome when I called there to schedule an event
two years ago. The bartender, who I had begun to know some, was very
apologetic in denying us service since DLVvisits there had been
exemplary. Others who came to the place later had ruined it for us and
also for local transgendered people by annoying some regular genetic
women customers with unseemly bathroom and other behavior. Following
complaints, the management closed the bar to any transgendered business,
and so far as I know their new policy has not changed.

>+How about a Cirque show?

>Yes, how about it? :)

>It's very easy to make this happen for next year. :)

Most of these are (1) expensive and (2) require early reservations.
Having said this, although I've seen Zoomanity I'm ready to go again and
will now volunteer to try to make it happen in 2009. Of all the shows it
should be great for DLV goers! Tickets are in the range of $100 plus tax
(there are cheaper, but you get what you pay for) and there are more
expensive. We will have to make our reservations more than an month in
advance to assure good seating depending on the time and day we go. I'm
also open to hosting other new shows that might be interesting.

>+How about some more shopping events

I guess I don't understand the need to plan shopping as group
activities. The Fashion Show Mall on the strip is easily accessible and
has lots of great choices where I spent way too much money this year. My
partner and I, along with some others, also shopped the outlet mall
south of town and the premium outlet mall north of town. This year we
didn't get to the boulevard mall because of time, but it's there and
reasonably accessible. How do you do a group shopping activity anyway?

>+The name tags would be better if they had an elastic string that
>+goes around your neck like they had at IFGE. The clip on is a
>+PITA.

>For the years that we had nametags, we've had the write-on
>stick-on type, the plastic pin-on type, and for the past few
>years, the clip-on type, and I was under the impression that
>our people preferred the clip-on type.

>Feedback, gang? Which types do you prefer?

Clip-ons don't mess up good clothing with pin-holes and snags and are
the only way to go! If nothing else, you can always clip the name badge
on your purse handle or strap.

>There are a few reasons why we don't publish lists of where
>people are staying and what they are doing. The primary reason
>is that many of our attendees have said they don't want such
>information published. Publishing e-mail addresses is a
>particularly touchy issue.

Privacy issues can have many implications and that's a major reason we
endeavor to keep the events private by discouraging press coverage. In
times past we have had a post-DLV e-mail address list for those who
asked to be on it and distributed only to those on it.

>+There is a "time" scheduled for each, but I gather this is
>+nominal. I discovered that DLV attendees frequently would
>+just go in and find each other and sit down prior to the
>+scheduled "time".

Lunch seating can be a problem, but it's not really that hard. As a
regular lunch hostess I've discovered early arrivals are likely to go
through the line and get a seat without much thought for others who will
be coming at the designated time and later. When that has occurred, as
I've gone through the line, I've told the buffet host(s) or hostess(es)
about our group and ask to be seated together if possible and if not
I've asked them to try to get us enough seats in close proximity to
accommodate my best guess on the number who will be coming. I also have
tried to display our DLV logo on the table, but that seems somewhat
unnecessary actually! Late arrivals just need to go through the line and
tell the buffet host or hostess they are looking for the DLV group and
join us. Believe me, we are obvious enough, DLV sign or not, that the
buffet hosts and hostesses don't forget we are there! At the Paris this
year when we told the hostess were were with DLV she escorted us to the
front of the long line and to our group after we had paid. I'd like to
suggest those arriving late for lunch just ask to be seated with the DLV
group.

----------
(This posting was entered by Ginger, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
----------

I'm responding to the general and activity comments and
suggestions. I'll post comments to the behavior, dress, and
restroom items in a separate posting.

I'm not responding to all of the comments. I'm also rushing
to get this done this evening, so if I seem a bit scatterbrained,
this is why!

I'm also making some separate comments on a couple issues
brought up in these comments regarding some possible
misunderstandings about what can be expected from the DLV
volunteers and misunderstandings on how you get information
about what's happening at DLV. These will be in separate
postings.

The Limo Tour had quite a few comments, and I'm responding to
those in a separate item as well.
. . . . .

Let's talk about the activities first ... :)

For the activity suggestions and such, you'll notice that I'm
once again repeating the same thing, broken record style (stuck
CD?), that reiterates that almost anything you want to be part
of DLV can very easily be part of DLV. You have the power to
make these things happen.
. . . . .

+We need a shooting match!

Then plan one! Seriously. :)

We've had golf matches, bowling matches, even mini-golf.

Why not a shooting match?

This would be very atypical of what goes on at a TG event, but
we're not constrained by tradition at all here. Just do it.

Just make the plans, tell us when it is, and we'll get it on
the schedule! :)
. . . . .

+It would be nice to have an expression meeting on the better
+understanding of the different TG cultures.

We've had "roundtable discussions" on occasion over the years,
some of them on the schedule and some impromptu.

If you want to see this happen, please feel free to plan it. All
you really need is a time and a place so we can put it on the
schedule.

You can discuss this and brainstorm either on the DLV Discussion
Forum or in the ORG group.

As for a place, many of our regular venues will be glad to
accommodate such a thing, in exchange for the refreshment
business.
. . . . .

+Please include mainstream (non-alternative, non-gay) after
+hours venues as options if they've proven to be accepting
+in the past.

We do, and we will continue to use mainstream venues as well
as alternative venues.

As to whether there will always be a mainstream option whenever
a safe-venue activity is planned, it's up to those who have
this as a priority to make it happen.

As I look back over the schedule for this year's DLV, it seems
that for every evening there was at least one mainstream
activity on the schedule. In retrospect, I think we did have a
very good mix of mainstream and alternative venues this year.
I really don't think there was a shortage of mainstream
options at all for DLV 2008.

If you want to see more mainstream options, please do some
homework and seek out venues which satisfy the criteria of
being "mainstream" and are indeed accepting.

Blue Ox is a good example of this. So is Bahama Breeze. What
we call the Charles Bar is another, assuming some don't spoil
it for all of us.

(And if you don't think this has happened, spoiling that is, it
already happened with another venue. :( For a couple years we
used a nice little very mainstream bar and grill in the vicinity
of Pecos and Flamingo. They valued our business, and TG business
in general for a while until -- you guessed it -- a few
inconsiderate dorks ruined it for all of us!) :(

But back to the topic at hand, there's a calling in the numbers
in the survey that more activities in mainstream venues are
desired.

Question to the masses:

Is this to mean that you, the attendees, think that the number
of mainstream-venue activities is inadequate?

I don't know, I'm asking.

As I look back at the 2008 schedule, there isn't any evening
which did not have some kind of a mainstream option.

Is there also a perception that some of the mainstream venues
we've been using, such as Blue Ox and Bahama Breeze are more
"alternative" than they are mainstream, or maybe "not
mainstream enough" in some way?

Comments on this one?
. . .

While on the subject of venues and seclusion, this one came
in regarding the Limo Tour:

+I was extremely uncomfortable during the Limo tour when we
+made our stops. I am a private person and did not enjoy being
+stared at and made fun of. It seemed to me, that we were being
+put on display for the benefit of the tourists.

I'm very sorry that this happened. We probably should have warned
everybody that there would be significant public exposure during
the tour. Those who haven't attended before probably don't know
this! :(

Yes, some of our people eat this right up! They love being part
of the show, so to speak, but some do not, and we do need to
consider this and at least let attendees know if any activity
will put them in the public spotlight.

The public will be curious. That's human nature. I think back to
what I would call an "outreach ministry" put on by a few of our
people on Fremont St. a few years ago.

One thing you can do if you don't want to be part of the "show"
is to kind of stay back, away from those who are attracting the
attention and seeking the spotlight. You will find that in a
place like Fremont Street or in a large hotel-casino it will be
easy to blend into the background.

And, as has been pointed out before, a small but significant
percentage of the civilian population will be envious and wish
they could join us! :)
. . . . .

+How about a Cirque show?

Yes, how about it? :)

It's very easy to make this happen for next year. :)

We did Love, which is a Cirque production, in 2007. No reason at
all why one can't be on the schedule for 2009.
. . . . .

+Also, with all the Biggest Loser talk, how about a daily
+aerobic exercise program? There's got to be a local gymn
+that will do this for us.

This is a good example of "out of the box" thinking, I admit.

As with all of the suggestions, it's very easy to make them
happen.

However, I'm wondering about the demand for this, most
specifically the demand at the time when it's necessary to
get up (after a night of NSD or Charles Bar) and get yourself
down to the gym.

Comments? Feedback? Is this something we want to pursue?
. . . . .

+A DLV Fashion Show perhaps sponsored by some major department
+store with proceeds going to some local charity. I think this
+would be fun and meaningful but I wouldn't know how to organize
+it.

Again (stroke!) a good example of thinking outside the box!

There have been a number of various suggestions over the years,
all involving fashion shows, both attending and participating.

Nobody as of yet has grabbed this ball and run with it. That is
all that's necessary for something like this to happen.

If there's to be a sponsored fashion show, I think it will be
much easier to get a sponsorship from one or more of our usual
preferred vendors than it would be to get it from any of the
major department stores.

As to how to organize it, first propose it to our ORG group
(be sure to answer the Call For Volunteers) and get some ideas
and discussion going. That's the way to start, anyway.
. . . . .

+Bring back air tours.

This almost falls into the "almost happened" category this year.

What killed it was that it cost real money, and when the call
went out for commitments to pay, that call was mostly unanswered.
. . . . .

+Burlesque nite,

Again, please feel free to check things out, see what shows you
think the DLV group might like, and bring this up to our ORG
people for next year.
. . . . .

+How about some more shopping events

Again (and again), these are very easy to plan, little
formality required.

We'll probably never get large groups for these, but shopping
things have consistently attracted a following over the years.

+and perhaps a night at the movies.

Also, very easy to plan. We've had these in the past. The
theater(s) at Orleans have been considered good for this.

Only problem is that the schedule of what's playing changes
frequently and may be difficult to include in an advance
schedule.

+What about Magic shows?, there were none on the DLV list
+this year.

True. I do know that Lance Burton was discussed as a possibility
this year, but it did not happen.

All it really takes, sorry for repeating this point, is someone
to take the ball, or in this case the disappearing ball, and run
with it.
. . . . .

Another recurring theme in feedback, going way back into the early
2000s, if not before, is the desire for (more) maximum-attendance
functions where one can meet and socialize with as many of the
others as possible.

+Out of 160 attendees - I only saw about 60 and less than 10 that
+I saw more than once.
. . .

+I would like to see one or two activities where we all could
+be at the same venue, so we could see everybody who attended DLV.
. . .

+It would have been nice to meet ALL the girls who attended DLV,
+the 150 or so.
. . .

This year we had two very successful maximum-attendance things,
one being the Welcome Celebration and the other being the Bahama
Breeze dinner on Saturday. Both of these drew over 90 people,
the largest crowds we've seen, at any one place and time, in the
history of DLV.

Let's look at the numbers.

History has shown that the most we can expect at the largest of
our gatherings is 70-80% of our attendees who happen to be in
town at that time. Other than maybe announcing "Free Beer", I
don't think we will be able to do better than that. :)

Our daily capacity projections said that we would have about
119 in town on Monday and about 137 in town on Saturday. The
figures of 80% and 70% respectively point to our actual real
world turnouts at those two functions.

Since we don't have mandatory attendance at anything, I sure
don't know how to boost that 70-80% figure.

Ideas on this, gang?

Question to the masses:

For those of you who were in town and skipped either the Welcome
Celebration or Bahama Breeze, what would it be that would make
you more likely to attend?

We'll continue to have 1-2 single-track maximum-turnout things
each year. Both of them worked well this year.

Planning a big maximum-attendance thing is a challenge. We have
to have a venue which is safe enough for the shyest of beginners,
but not claustrophobic for the avowedly mainstream types.

If it's a bar type mixer, drinks have to be reasonable. If it's
a dinner, it has to be something where most everybody will find
something they will like.
. . .

On a similar topic ...

Both during DLV and in feedback, I heard remarks to the effect
that a more upscale, more of a dress-up large scale affair was
desired.

+Not sure how this can be done, perhaps a Glamour
+Ball for one of the nights that all can attend????

and

+dress is more and more everyday each year, even for the big
+events. how about a big dress-up ball, let everyone glam it
+up a bit.

and

+If possible to have a formal event with a banquet style meal and
+entertainment.

One person remarked of the challenges of planning such a thing,
such as the limited menu (which our people tend to dislike) and
the facility wanting cash up front, which, lacking a sugar-mommy,
would necessitate prepayment (which our people most definitely
dislike and have a poor follow-through record).

My hunch is that the staff at Blyss would be more than willing
to work with DLV, and will be willing to adjust their business
model to our way of doing things, in order to make something
like this happen. I'm sure they would be willing to arrange the
entertainment in exchange for the captive-audience bar business,
particularly on what would otherwise be one of their slower
evenings.

I think that Blyss, should it remain unchanged over the next
year, would be sufficiently upscale to host such a thing.

Maybe another check with Alexis Park might be in order. They
REALLY turned away a LOT of very good business this year!
. . .

+I would like more group functions (happy hours) but I understand.

Happy hours fill the need for that Quality Social Time<tm>.

This year, I think the only night we didn't have some kind of a
happy hour was Thursday. For our multi-track evenings, a happy
hour will most likely be fragmented, as it's just not practical
to have a common happy hour and then split the group up.
. . . . .

+The name tags would be better if they had an elastic string that
+goes around your neck like they had at IFGE. The clip on is a
+PITA.

For the years that we had nametags, we've had the write-on
stick-on type, the plastic pin-on type, and for the past few
years, the clip-on type, and I was under the impression that
our people preferred the clip-on type.

Feedback, gang? Which types do you prefer?

It will, however, probably be up to the person purchasing the
tags for next year to decide what type to get.

By the way, I don't think everybody knows this, but we have no
funds for this. The person purchasing the tags does so knowing
that there's a good chance he or she will not get reimbursed.
We've often been able to pay them back when activity funds run
"long", but not always! :(
. . . . .

Over the years we have recieved requests to publish lists
of attendees, such things as who is staying where, who is
signed up to do what, etc.

+I would like to see something like a list of where all the
+DLVer's will be staying with E-mail so we can get to know
+each other when staying at the same hotel. it would help
+with ride sharing, going to same events, or just hanging out.

+Re: meeting other participants at various venues- when the
+registration confirmation is sent out, could the names of the
+other participants be included for the events signed up for.
+It would be helpful to know who to look for.

There are a few reasons why we don't publish lists of where
people are staying and what they are doing. The primary reason
is that many of our attendees have said they don't want such
information published. Publishing e-mail addresses is a
particularly touchy issue.

Another, for activities at least, is that we want everyone to
choose activities on the basis of what they are interested in
doing, not who else is doing it.
. . . . .

We did much better this year, IMAO, with regard to things
happening when and where they were scheduled, and with few
complaints about not being able to find the group and such.

One remark about difficulty finding the group at lunch.

+There is a "time" scheduled for each, but I gather this is
+nominal. I discovered that DLV attendees frequently would
+just go in and find each other and sit down prior to the
+scheduled "time".

I noticed what you are talking about too. Since we started
moving lunch around to different venues, and having different
hostesses, things became less uniform.

For next year, we should probably have some kind of a
consistent procedure such that all who attend the lunch know
exactly what to do and what to look for.
. . . . .

+I was shocked that virtually nobody showed up for the shopping
+trip. Given our collective love of shopping I'd be curious why
+this would be.

We've had fair turnouts at some of our group shopping things
over the years, but never a large crowd.

My guess is that such things as the day of the week (Friday,
when our people are getting tired and worn out in general),
the time of day (noon, still early for the Limo Tour and Pity
Party crowds, let alone those who did the Charles Bar) had
something to do with it.

The shopping trip was rated very highly, however. :)
. . . . .

+* I was put off by several attendees asking if I was "just" a
+cross-dresser or if I intended to transition. This kind of
+condescending attitude has no place in a group that should be
+about acceptance of any socially respectful alternative gender
+presentation.

I agree! {sigh} :(

Although it's not as prevalent as it once was, there still is,
to some extent, a pecking order perpetuated in the minds of
some of the members of our community.

There also still is, to some extent but not as much as it was
in the 80s and the 90s, some degree of peer pressure to jump on
the transition track, or at least appear to aspire to do so.

It's been my observation that those who are really and truly full
time, and really and truly in the process of transition, are not
those who look down on those for whom transition is not an option.
. . . . .

There were comments about the disjointed payment methods, more
so than in years past.

+Allow a way for late commers to send in money before arriving
+to pay for events.

+* The unstructured nature of paying for events you'd signed
+up for was a little bizarre. It would be really helpful if
+I could have paid everything when I got my badge rather than
+a lot of one-off payments to different people

+Only suggestion I make is to set up some kind of c clearing
+house so you can pay for all, Tea, Limo, Show, with one check.

One qualifier here:

+(this might not be realistic due to the volunteer nature
+of things, I know.)

Let's discuss ...

What may be unknown to many DLVers, particularly those who are
new, is that for DLV, there is no treasury, no central account,
no common pool of funds. From a financial standpoint, each
activity is independent and self-supporting.

We've discussed the idea of having a volunteer "Activities
Host(ess)" who is empowered to collect for and issue tickets
for most of the paid activities, but that has yet to happen.

For this to happen, we need somebody with the desire and the
appropriate skill set to step forward and make it happen.

Comments?

Volunteers?
. . .

>Also, try to get show tickets together.

This, again, falls into the category of things that would be
nice, but are very difficult considering DLV's model.

Back in the Bad Old Days, like back when the Mob Ran Vegas<tm>,
it was very easy to get a large group seated together at a
Las Vegas show. You just applied the appropriate amount of
"grease", and it happened.

During the "Disneyfication" (and even before) people started
complaining about having to "grease the penguins" in order to
get good seats.

Nowadays, most showrooms have "hard" seat assignments, and it's
nearly impossible to get seats together that are not paid for
together.

For many of the more popular shows, getting seats together for
our group requires one person to collect in advance and purchase
tickets in advance. Prepayment is something which is highly
disliked, as is well known.

Another approach that's been tried a couple of time is to have
the activity coordinator collect in real time at DLV and then
go to the box office on the day of show and get the best seats
available, all or mostly together. Depending on the popularity
of the show, this may or may not be a realistic approach.
. . . . .

A couple comments about street addresses, and yes, we will be
double-checking all of the addresses on the schedule next year.

+some of the addresses to the venues were not accurate.

Please tell us which ones were not accurate.

The addresses that appeared on the final schedule came from
either the Big List, where the address was usually given by
the person making the entry, or from the Embarq (nee Sprint)
telephone directory.

If there were some which came from the Big List that were
not accurate, we should correct them, please let us know
which ones!
. . .

+* The address listed for the Blue Ox (3111) was incorrect.
+I can't remember the correct address, but it was something
+like 3065.

I've checked this very thoroughly now.

When your report came in, I thought "oh sh*t, we blew it" since
that address came from the Big List, from whoever made the
original entry years ago.

I checked with the phone book and with some various Las Vegas
restaurant listings on the web. All of them show the address
of the Blue Ox as 3111 South Valley View, as it appears on
the Big List, and on the final schedule.

All of the resources I can find confirm that 3111 is indeed
the correct address of the Blue Ox.

Where did that 3065 number come from?
. . .

Another comment came in regarding the directions to the Lake
Mead boat docks:

+* The directions to the Lake Mead meeting place listed cross
+streets for the interstate as including "Sahara/Boulder Highway"
+which may make sense if you live there, but out-of-towners read
+this as expecting Sahara to cross I515 which it does not unless
+you turn on Boulder highway first.

The coordinator of that activity got these directions from the
tour operator's web site. I really don't know what more we could
have done there, sorry.
. . . . .

+Honestly, I'm not sure who my big sister was.

You should have received a note from Nora, our Big Sister
Coordinator, as to who your Big Sister was.

If you have trouble finding your Big Sister, you really do need
to check with Nora (who was present at almost everything this
year) to help you identify her.
. . . . .

+This year, the food was excellent!

Couldn't have said that better myself! :)
. . .

+I wish I lived closer so that I could help with the event.

You don't have to live in Las Vegas, or even in the States to
help with DLV. Many of our more active volunteers live hundreds
if not thousands of miles from LV.
. . . . .

The fact that DLV 2008 was quite a bit like a rewind-replay of
DLV 2007 was mentioned to me this year in person, and also
reflected on the survey.

+For those that attend more than three years, I hear and see
+these people saying its the same ole event with no changes,
+or they just don't attend and do their own thing.

One specific suggestion that I heard this year was that we go
as far as to "outlaw" any of our major recurring activities
from occurring on the same weekday in 2009 as they did in
2008, thus forcing some variety.

+We need to modify or cycle the activity within the perpetual
+events to keep the interest of all attendees. NSD is a good
+example of changes in the event to keep people going or
+interested in attending.

Night Of The Soiled Doves is a good example of something that
has been kept fresh by introducing some variety into the
plan.

We've also attempted to introduce some variety into the Limo
Tour, which worked far better in 2007 than it did in 2008. :(

One issue with the mainline TG conventions is that they are
very predictable and repetitive, and get old very fast. We've
always promoted DLV as an alternative to the conventions, and
we do need to keep things fresh.

+We also need the newer attendees to be placed with the older
+more senior organizers of events to help organize a event, and
+to allow newer people to take over the event at some later date.
+This can give the older organizer a chance to organize new
+events, or take a needed break from organizing event(s). It can
+also give fresh ideas to those events from the new people.

There's been talk of an "apprenticeship program" for volunteers,
and this is something I would very much like to see happen, but
so far it has not. We can visit this once again in ORG this year.

However, it will take the support, effort-wise, from all of the
volunteers to make this happen.

+Since volunteering doesn't draw that many people, is there a
+way to push the new people a bit more to volunteer or is there
+a way of assigning them to a organizer? The organizer will then
+take the new attendee/volunteer under their wing and teach them
+how to do the event.

We really don't have a shortage of volunteers per se.

We had something like 26 volunteers take part in putting on this
year's DLV, more if you count Big Sisters, volunteer drivers, and
spur-of-the-moment assistants.

We've also had a great response to our Call For Volunteers, as
we did last year.

We do need to more fully utilize the volunteers. There were many
who were never called upon to do anything last year, who I'm sure
would have otherwise done so.

We need to carefully watch it to avoid burning out those who have
done more than is expected year after year!

+DLV should have events for beginners, and that is how I started;
+and also events for the more experienced.

I think we had a very good mix this year. We had a number of
things that were perfectly safe for those newly-out

+There seems to be a strong push for only mainstream events and
+away from the safer venues like gay bars and restaurants, having
+the newbies go to other starter type conferences.

I really didn't think we had a shortage of mainstream activities
this year. I'm a bit perplexed at the continued call for more
mainstream things, as if some think we're short on those.

+The gay bars and restaurants are still needed for the newbies and
+are safe public locations where they can start or begin their
+public appearance outside of the closet.

The alternative clubs and bars, as well as the safer venues of all
types, can be fun for those who have been out and about for decades
as well!

+This year was the first year we had no dress problems with the
+attendees, so the BDR is working and I feel the attendees know
+where they are as far as experience and dress, and will attend
+events that they can handle in both dress and behavior.

Actually, we didn't have any dress issues for several years. We
started seeing the dress issues around 2002-2003 or so.

+DLV should have events for both beginner and experienced, but
+it should not be easy for the beginner to attend mainstream
+until they are really ready in both behavior and dress.

I don't have any clue as to how this can be accomplished other
than by trusting the individual to make an informed decision.

+This may demand more volunteers, to have the two full tracks
+of events. BUT are doing it pretty much now.

Multi-tracking has worked, and yes, there are some cases where
alternative and mainstream activities worked well against each
other.

+The more experienced will demand more mainstream which is
+understandable as their experience improves. BUT we shouldn't
+forget the beginners and we should NOT change DLV to only
+mainstream.

I don't hear a calling for ONLY mainstream. I am hearing a
calling for MORE mainstream, but I'm a bit confused, since
I don't think mainstream things were lacking this year.
. . . . . . . . . .

Again this year, by far the most recurrent theme in comments is
along the following lines:

+It is a great event and I have attended for five years and would
+not miss it unless I was on my "death bed".
. . .

+Everything was fine! So good to see old friends and meet new ones!
. . .

+Hugs and Thanks to all.
. . .

+Keep up the good work, great week.
. . .

+This was a great week. No bad incidents effected me.
. . .

+What more can I say, this is a great event, thanks again for
+doing it.
. . .

+I had more fun dancing at a mainstream venue this year than I
+can remember in a long time.
. . .

+Many thanks to the organizers. Great week. Saw many old friends.
+Met many new friends. I enjoyed the larger get togethers. Monday
+at Blue Ox. Thursday Pity Party. Friday Zodies Jam. Saturday at
+Bahama Breeze and Club Bliss. Perfect settings for a social
+butterfly. See you next year.
. . .

+As I've said, this is the best girl time anyone could ever want.
. . .

+I hope scheduling allows me to attend often. Thanks for
+your efforts.
. . .

+DLV rocks!!! I'll be back!!!
. . .

+Diva has been my finest hour each year. This is one in a million.
+Please keep up the good work and thanks so much.
. . .

+It is the best week of the year!
+Thanks
. . .

+This was my first Diva and it was the MOST PERFECT WEEK OF MY
+LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

+I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH A FRIENDLY BUNCH!!!!!!!!!

+I WILL BE BACK NEXT YEAR WITH BELLS ON!!!!!!!!!!
. . .

+Please keep up the good work you are doing for the trans
+gendered society!
. . .

+We had a nice time! Thank you for all your hard work...
. . .

These are what keeps us going, they are read and appreciated,
every last one of them! :)

----------
(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Denise McCracken
----------

Oh...please....no more restroom items...

Look. It's really simple. You open the stall door and sit on the
toilet (that porcelain thing). That roll of white paper is for wiping
your butt with. The handle on the back of the toilet flushes it.

>+We need a shooting match!

AMEN! Twice, half of our group have left TG events to go to shooting
events. Remember the gun show, and the gun shop next door to the
lingerie shop?

I would love to do this, and I would even plan it, except for one thing.
From 1998-the mid 2000's, I never missed a DLV. Now every year I miss
it for one reason or another. I've got health, child, and financial
issues, and I'm running a trucking business. IF there is any way, I'll
be there, but that's all I can promise.

HOWEVER...If you want somebody to find you a shooting range and set up a
group rate, I would do that. I hate to do that and miss it, but you can
send me pictures. One thing about shooting ranges, though, is that
they are very conservative, so the dress code would be tight.

Now if anyone knows of a place in the middle of nowhere where we can
shoot freely, that's cool, but if I can't be there, I suggest a range
master who is familiar with firearms safety. Whomever is going to do
it, I will also send a brief list of safety rules and disclaimer. Also,
some responsible people may volunteer to teach beginners to shoot. I
will do this, if I'm there, and I can let you try a few weapons.

>Yes, some of our people eat this right up! They love being part
>of the show, so to speak, but some do not, and we do need to
>consider this and at least let attendees know if any activity
>will put them in the public spotlight.

Check the dress code? If it says "Anything goes", the shy folks might
want to go get drunk instead.

>And, as has been pointed out before, a small but significant
>percentage of the civilian population will be envious and wish
>they could join us! :)

Yes...most of them are Japanese, carrying camera gear.

>+Bring back air tours.

>This almost falls into the "almost happened" category this year.

>What killed it was that it cost real money, and when the call
>went out for commitments to pay, that call was mostly unanswered.

When avgas was $2 a gallon and we had money to wipe with, it was all
volunteered. We broke even on contributions and paid for the fuel;
however, it's over $5 now, and despite that it's Vegas, we can't gamble
that people will throw in enough, and even if they do, they're paying
three times as much for it. The airplane is still here, though, so if
the price of gas comes down, we will call for interest in air tours
again.

Thus further sayeth naught

-denise (certified professional smartass)

----------
(This posting was entered by Denise McCracken, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: annie
----------

> Annie and others can also comment on this, but
> experience shows very costly activities are poorly
> supported as are activities that require payment
> far in advance.

In general, yes.

The expensive shows don't attract nearly as many of
our people as do the reasonably-priced ones. The last
show where we really got a significant percentage of
our people together was Showgirls Of Magic, which has
long ago closed.

Anything that requires a hoop-jump, such as sending in
a prepayment, is disliked. The follow-through rate on
prepayment is abysmally low. This is the reason I've
avoided it for the Limo Tour the past few years.

>>+How about some more shopping events

> I guess I don't understand the need to plan shopping
> as group activities.

Even though I've participated in these and led these,
yes, the concept does seem a bit illogical.

A lot of our people do love to shop, but are a bit shy
about doing it alone. This is where I think the
benefit of a planned shopping excursion comes in.
There's some comfort in being along with others. It
also allows some second opinions on what's being
considered for purchase.

Although we've never had a mob go shopping, we've had
some good turnouts over the years. I'll never forget
four vanloads descending en masse on Vegas Girl Wigs,
or some of our people getting bored shopping for
unmentionables and wandering to a nearby gun shop, or
spotting a group of our people using a baby carriage
as a shopping cart in the old Belz mall! :)

----------
(This posting was entered by annie, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Joan Dupree
----------

> Why not a shooting match?

Why not. I'd like to fire an M-16 again, at some nice bullseye paper
targets. I think I still remember how to zero it.

> This would be very atypical of what goes on at a TG event, but
> we're not constrained by tradition at all here. Just do it.

Let's be atypical.

> +It would be nice to have an expression meeting on the better
> +understanding of the different TG cultures.

I agree, IFGE 2008 in Tucson was a lot of fun. I went to a lot of great
workshops.

> Question to the masses:

> Is this to mean that you, the attendees, think that the number
> of mainstream-venue activities is inadequate?

I wouldn't say inadequate, but there's always room for something new.

> Is there also a perception that some of the mainstream venues
> we've been using, such as Blue Ox and Bahama Breeze are more
> "alternative" than they are mainstream, or maybe "not
> mainstream enough" in some way?

> Comments on this one?

I would say Blue Ox and Bahama Breeze are mainstream. I'm not sure
mainstreaming is something you can measure.

> While on the subject of venues and seclusion, this one came
> in regarding the Limo Tour:

Seclusion? I hope we're not trying to create closets here.

> We did Love, which is a Cirque production, in 2007. No reason at
> all why one can't be on the schedule for 2009.

Cirque shows in Las Vegas.

"O" at Bellagio
"Mystere" at Treasure Island
"KA" at MGM Grand
"Zumanity " at New York, New York.
"Love" at The Mirage.

> +Also, with all the Biggest Loser talk, how about a daily
> +aerobic exercise program? There's got to be a local gymn
> +that will do this for us.

I have a good TS friend of mine who uses a local gym. I'll talk to her
about it.

> This is a good example of "out of the box" thinking, I admit.

> As with all of the suggestions, it's very easy to make them
> happen.

> However, I'm wondering about the demand for this, most
> specifically the demand at the time when it's necessary to
> get up (after a night of NSD or Charles Bar) and get yourself
> down to the gym.

True, but not all of us stay out late.

> +The more experienced will demand more mainstream which is
> +understandable as their experience improves. BUT we shouldn't
> +forget the beginners and we should NOT change DLV to only
> +mainstream.

> I don't hear a calling for ONLY mainstream. I am hearing a
> calling for MORE mainstream, but I'm a bit confused, since
> I don't think mainstream things were lacking this year.

I don't think we have to be exclusively mainstream. but if we do, I'm OK
with that.

All the best, J. in LV, enjoying the morning.

----------
(This posting was entered by Joan Dupree, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Mary Beth
----------

Hi, Mary Beth here....

>it's nearly impossible to get seats together that are not paid for
>together.

I co-ordinated the Love show in 2007. About 8 weeks before DLV,
I called the Mirage box office and explained to the woman on the
phone that there was a group of people flying in from all over
the country who wanted to sit near each other for the show.

I asked her to recommend an empty row in each of the three price
levels for the night we were attending. I then sent out a notice to
the discussion list telling people who knew they would attend to
call the box office and purchase their tickets in those specific
rows. This worked very well, as the people who wanted to attend
pretty much ended up in the same row of each section.

If you know you're going to be there, make the commitment and
purchase early. I think by 8 weeks prior to DLV most people know
if they are attending or not.

>I was under the impression that our people preferred the clip-on
>type (name badge holders). Feedback, gang? Which types do you
>prefer?

I like the clip-ons. I don't like putting pinholes in my clothing.
I found over the years that the string types fly all over the
place and are easy to lose.

----------
(This posting was entered by Mary Beth, an external user of MyDLV.)

[External Poster]

This posting is from: Denise McCracken
----------

>I agree, IFGE 2008 in Tucson was a lot of fun. I went to a lot
>of great workshops.

Tucson...something happened here? I never get to travel. If you do
something like this again, please email me off-list and I'll meet you.
I have everything from 22's to AK47's that you can play with.

-densie

----------
(This posting was entered by Denise McCracken, an external user of MyDLV.)