dlv Photos, e-mail, IRC, feedback, etc. ...

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In this mailing:

Photos
E-mail directory
IRC
Feedback on DLV 2001 from Downunder
Yet More feedback
Administrivia
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Photos:

More photos have come in. More are still coming.

http://www.geekbabe.com/dlv/dlv2001/staging/

A note to everybody (and a few in particular): The staging area is not
for public display. It is for the DLV people to view, comment on, and
veto photos prior to having them placed in a public area. Please do not
>AHEM< draw links to the staging area >AHEM< from public web sites.
>AHEM< We don't want the geekbabe.com net.cops to have to go to the
geocities.com net.cops to get links killed. >>AHEM<< Thanks for your
cooperation on this.

When the official DLV 2001 pages are on line, everybody will be
encouraged to link to it as always.
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E-mail directory:

>Regarding email directory, is this something that will be posted
>internally within the circle of our potential/actual participants, or is this
>something anyone on the web can access?

>Wouldn't mind keeping up communications with those I've met, but would
>be a little hesitant if anyone out in cyberland could easily contact me
>from the dlv 2001 page, or similarly accessible venue. Thanks.

It only goes out to those who appear within it. No, it's not gonna be on
the web. That would be spambot bait. :)

An update will be sent out to everybody in the directory in about a
week.
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IRC:

>BTW What was the IRC server name for the chat groups. You told me, Annie
>but of course being a dumb girl I've forgotten it!

Use any standard IRC client (Mirc, Pirch, ircii, BitchX, etc.) and
connect to any of:

irc.pinkmyst.com
fnord.pinkmyst.com
blarg.pinkmyst.com

Then /join #transgender

The channel is usually most active during the USA evening hours, roughly
2200 - 0500 Zulu or so. Other times you may or may not find anybody
actually there and active.

For those who don't know what we are talking about, the people who
started DLV back in 1997 met on IRC. The channel listed above is the
successor to the channel on which the original DLV people first met.

If you would like to try this out and don't wanna jump thru the hoops
of installing one of the usual IRC clients, several web interfaces
are now available. One popular one is at the url:

http://www.tggalaxy.com/chat/chat1.html

That particular one is set with the defaults for the channel above.
Just enter your preferred nickname (handle, screen name, etc.) and
click the "Connect Now" button.
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Feedback on DLV 2001 from Downunder:

>> 1. Of the activities you attended, which did you most like and why?
>> Which did you least like and why?

>Sahara Buffet. Food wasn't as good as last year and as a group we seemed
>to attract more attention than last year

This is the second comment to the effect that the food was poorer this
time. I'm trying to think of what I had, and I can't really remember,
but it was not memorably bad. I know I had a salad, a plate of main dish
and side dish stuff, and something for dessert, but I'm at a loss to
remember exactly what. Maybe there were 1-2 items that were bad and
that gave some people that impression. Ladies? (Gentlemen?)

>DLV Welcome. OK

>Kenny Kerr. As others have said the showed started slowly but got
>better. I expected more TG performers but it was still a reasonable
>show.

>> 2. Of the activities you chose to skip, why did you do so? Was it lack
>> of interest, schedule conflict, time crunch, too public, etc.?

>Wednesday Dinner and Drinks. Arrived too late to get ready attend the
>dinner and ended up falling a sleep early that night. Had been
>travelling for four days from NZ, to Seattle and then SFO and LAX
>and then to Vegas.

>Thursday Pre DLV drinks. Got sidetracked with problems in New Zealand
>and by the time I sorted that out I decided against going. Was looking
>forward to seeing everyone

>Friday air tour. Saw Annies message that I was an extra and decided it
>wouldn't happen but then I realised there was two trips after the event.
>My fault.

>Follies and Limo. Several reasons. One was prepayment of the Follies
>show. Difficult to do in a timely fashion from New Zealand) and the
>other was the late show time. (See N+I comments below)

>Farewell get together. Really looking forward to this but ended up with a
>crisis at one of my clients in NZ and had to wait for a phone conference
>scheduled for about 8:30pm. End up being cancelled at last minute and while
>I was dressed, made up decided not to go (See NoShow comments below)

>I arrived in Las Vegas on May 2 and was pretty much en femme until I
>left on Friday May 11. Went shoping etc by myself and didn't have any
>major issues (although see Maiden Form Outlet shop below).

>Went to most major hotel / casinos including Venetian, Paris, Aladdins,
>Bellagio, NYNY, Excalibar, Hilton without any issues. Won and lost on
>the pokies.

>Went to four days of N+I en femme. The first two days (Sunday and Monday
>were at Bellagio. Apart from the fact the two car parks are equidistant
>from the convention hall, (seemed like several miles), I had no problems
>with attendence, restrooms.

>The second two days were at the Convention centre and the Keynotes were
>in the Las Vegas Hilton. Again no big issues.

>On the Wednesday I stopped by the Star Trek casino section ended up
>spending twenty dollars on the Poker machine. Took nearly three and half
>hours to to do it but I persisted and eventually managed to whittle it
>down to zero. Ended up two small and two massive drinks from a very
>friendly hostess although initially I thought they must all have been
>shot 'cause it was almost an hour before one put in an appearance.

>> 3. Did you patronize any of our recommended vendors? If so, are you
>> satisfied with their products and services? Are there any vendors that
>> should be added to our list?

>Can't remember the list but I went to Belz on three occasions. Bought
>some $20 shoes at the big shoe shop near the north (east?) end. Voice
>was a dead give away but the sales assistant was quite nice about it
>all.

Quite honestly, I don't think your voice is bad at all. I think your
accent helps, here in the States at least. People will zero in on it and
not the pitch or inflection.

>Toured through Speigals(sp?!) and quite frankly if I'd had the money I
>would have bought 100's if not 1000's of dollars of stuff. They had some
>really nice, seemingly low cost, good value stuff. Didn't see the shoe
>section until my third trip which was probably just as well from a
>budget perspective!

Hmmmmm ... I've been in there many times and I can't remember seeing a
shoe section.

>> 4. Did you visit any clubs and bars that were not covered by the DLV
>> activities? Would you recommend them for a group activity?

>Nope.

>> 5. Did you do anything on your own that you would recommend we consider
>> as a DLV activity?

>Well I did lots of things on my own but DLV already does these to a
>large extent.

>> 6. How were your hotel accommodations? Would you recommend your hotel
>> to other DLV people?

>Stayed at a time share / Ramada Vacation Suites. The one I was in was a
>motor inn style block of six, three up stairs and three downstairs.
>Ecellent. I could spread out. Two bathrooms, kitchen, lounge etc. Worked
>well. Some issues with maid service timings. One day they didn't come
>back when I couldn't let them in when they wanted and one day they were
>still at it when I got back at 6:00pm. Other wise good low cost solution
>(total for 9 days was about USD350.00 or about $40/day for a two bedroom
>apartment with kitchen in effect.

>If you own a time timeshre this is a good way to save money coming to a
>DLV or any type of conference for that matter.

>> 7. Would you attend another DLV? Why or why not?

>Yes, if it coincides with by conference / business plans otherwise its
>too difficult to justify when coming form New Zealand
>
>> 8. Would you prefer a more structured or a less structured schedule
>> of activities for DLV 2002?

>Yes!

>> 9. Do you have any suggestions for other activities that you think the
>> group might enjoy?

>Group Sex! Just joking!

That's already been suggested. :)

>Other Stuff:

>N+I clash. When we discussed moving DLV to the weekend before N+I I was
>generally neutral or in favour of it however that was really before I
>realised that N+I had moved one of their main conference streams a day
>earlier (Strategic InterOP Sun, Mon). As a result I knew I was going to
>have trouble attending some events I really wanted to including the golf
>and Follies. I guess timing will always be an issue. Was anyone impacted
>by this?

I also attended N+I, but I made sure not to schedule anything for Sunday
and Monday. We may wanna re-address this scheduling issue when we set
the dates for DLV 2002.

>Maiden Form Outlet shop. On my second trip round Belz, en femme I went
>into the above shop and was looking at the Size 7 panties!

>One of the assistants clearly said to her associates, "I think we've got
>another one". She then got up and walked over talked to them, went back
>sat down and then clearly said "We get a lot of them in here".

Jeez! She must be new! Belz has to be one of the most popular tranny
hangouts in the USA. Mall Of America probably gets more, but Belz gets
quite a few. She's gonna have to get used to it, we are not going away!

The more I think about this, she had to be new/temp since that place was
obviously a final closeout temporary location. Anybody who has sold
lingerie has to have run into t* people.

>By this stage I realised I was the centre of her comments. Now while I
>do pass pretty well I was a little embarrassed by this and when I looked
>up, I looked straight into her gaze. I ended up leaving without
>purchasing anything. I went back two days later in boy mode on my way
>out of town and that particular assistant wasn't there and I didn't have
>any issues with buying stuff. Pity really.

I'm sure they saw quite a few of us that week. I got word of the
Maidenform closeout, and when we went to Belz on Thursday, I zeroed in
on it, since there is one bra they make which I really like. They didn't
have things sorted by style, and the boxes on the tables were kinda
picked over, so here I was sitting on the floor going thru 2 boxes of my
size picking out the one style when one of the other DLV people sneaks
up on me and says in a stage whisper that could be heard at the other
end of the mall, something like "I know what you're buying." :)

I saw several of the others in there that nite, but I didn't notice any
strange glances or any comments from the store staff or the others in
the store.

I had to go back to Belz Friday morning, so I popped in there and found
a fresh box of my size, so I grabbed 3 more of the style I like. Both
times I was in there, I saw guys shopping in boymode, one was looking
over nightgowns on the rear wall, the other time a guy was going thru a
box of panties right in the front door. Nobody seemed to be paying any
attention either time.

>No Shows. I consider myself to be fairly confident going out as a woman but
>I have to say that some of the venues for DLV are in decidedly seamy
>locations, at least by my standards and in fact those of the "glitzy" Las
>Vegas. Last year I had trouble finding the Las Vegas Lounge and this year
>when it came time to go I was put off by the location. Even Goodtimes has to
>be considered a bit dicey, especially when / if you have to park a little
>ways a way.

As you know, we had a lot of negative comments about LV Lounge this
year, and the area is a mixed bag. On one side you have the LV Country
Club and on the other you have a large strip mall complex, which I admit
can be deserted and scary at nite. The reason I think that area is a bit
spooky is it's not well traveled. I did ask one of the others to go
with me when I thought I would have to hunt for a parking place one
of the times.

However (comma) I don't think the area around Goodtimes is bad at all.
It is older (by Las Vegas standards) but is well traveled and has a
large well lit parking lot. This is the first time I've heard any
comments about this one. Does anybody else feel uneasy traveling to
the area of the Goodtimes after dark?

IMAO, the area a few blocks north of Keys is far more scary than the
areas around LV Lounge or Goodtimes.

>So I wonder whether part of the problem with No shows is some of the venue
>locations for meeting type events if you like.

Comments, gang?

>Secondly both this year and two years ago, getting to the Kenny Kerr show
>was basically through old style, not seedy but not modern hotels. Last year
>several girls had issues with cat whistling at Riveria. My point here is
>that maybe some people actually turn up but get put off by some of the
>venues and the access to them. Maybe meeting points should be in easier to
>get locations, such as, for example ONLY, the location of the photos after
>the Kenny Kerr show.

>I think the hardest part of going out as a cross dresser is walking out the
>door in to the real world. Yes we have the big sister program, which by all
>accounts has worked well, but maybe some of the no show issues relate to
>again people getting to Las Vegas but going the final step through the door
>and not able, wanting, prepared to ask/call for help.

>Ways around some of these issues are a known meeting room that easily
>accessible and also perhaps shifting some of the meeting venues to
>perhaps more up-market locations, such as a bar within a major hotel. I
>know both were discussed last year and may be need to be reviewed again
>to see if they deserve further consideration for next year

We've had the meeting room discussion each year. I'm sure we will
revisit it yet again on the org list this coming year. My primary
concern has always been that it would be used as a "safe"(er) place to
congregate and that we would get fewer people out on the town.

I know we've patronized bars at the casino-hotels all years, but it
seems the consensus is they would be scarier and more of a challenge
to the newcomers.

Places like Goodtimes and Keys seem to be fun enough for everybody,
out enough for those who are experienced, and still safe enough for
those who are new. IMAO, that is. :)

I'm sure this thread will be continued on the org list this summer
and fall.

>Appearances: Compared to previous years the standard of dress, make-up
>and presentation seemed to me to be of a higher standard. There was in
>general a realisation of proper attire for proper occasions, and while I
>understand this wasn't always the case you'd get that in any group
>meeting of sixty or so people.

On the whole, yes, I would agree with you. There were some very nice and
elegant outfits for the dress-up affairs, and more of the people are
becoming more comfortable with casual.

>My photos at least show some very well
>made up ladies and some very stylish women as well. While I don't wish
>to either embarrass or upset anyone the casual observer would have some
>difficulty determining GG's from CD's

Quite honestly, when I was waiting at the top of the escalator at the
Sahara trying to catch the DLV people, I had some trouble telling who
was supposed to be with our group and who was not.

>Finally, I guess I need to say I was disappointed I couldn't / didn't get
>more out of DLV this year. The two months before were pretty hectic for me
>with travel to North American in March and April and some issues associated
>with that as well as the work pressures to clients on BOTH sides of the
>Pacific.

>While I READ I didn't really TAKE-IN the last two months of activities,
>too the point Annie even sent me an e-mail when I did respond to
>something about how quiet I'd been!

I just wanted to be sure you were still with us. :)
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Yet More feedback:

>>>I think we went out of our way to assure new and uneasy people that they
>>>would be among friends in a caring and supportive environment. I don't see
>>>much more we can do on this.

>This is the first ever event I have gone to, and the girls I met were
>friendly and easy to talk too, as with any new encounter everyone is a
>little uneasy at first. I had a chance to meet Annie, great lady. No
>what she does she will not be able to please 100%, but from what I have
>read so far she please 99.9% keep the fabulous work

>>You can only invite and try to give warm fuzzy feelings. As with most
>>things worth gaining in life, only the individual can take the first
>>step. I think you did outstanding in getting the message out that it
>>is okay to be who you are, and there are plenty of others eager to help
>>someone who is nervous. Stay the course, Annie. Here Here

>>>I heard one complaint about Goodtimes being too smoky. I was there 3
>>>times this year and did not notice this myself.

>>I do not smoke and am usually very sensitive when there is a lot around.
>>I was at Goodtimes three times and never had any sensation of being too
>>smokey. (Don't think the wine caused any senses to be impaired either.)

>I do not smoke, and I did not find Goodtimes smokey. I did fine their
>rum and coke the best in town.

>>>My biggest concern is that of no-shows. It was highest (both in
>>>number and in percentage) this year of all years. I can understand
[snip]

>>>As I look over the photos and see all the smiling faces, and read over
>[cut-paste]
>>>I wonder if there's something we could be doing better.

>I do not think this could be done any better. Annie and Comapny you did
>best you could do..do not change anything.

>>I think maybe some of you full timers forget the number of guts it
>>takes to go out in public, especially a maddening crowd like you
[clip]

>I am not a so called full timer, nor did I get the impression that many
>of us there were full time. But to feel someone is not going to accept
>me, the less I am accepted. So girl like yourself. Throw your makeup on,
>slap your wig on, fill your bra, and put your panties on straight and
>take the plunge. Love Ya

>>>I think we went out of our way to assure new and uneasy people that
>>>they would be among friends in a caring and supportive environment. I
>>>don't see much more we can do on this.

>That's right, Its not your job to make everyone feel comfortable. If a
>girl is not comfortable with herself she will not feel comfortable with
>anyone

>>Yes you do, but it's the whole thing that scares the hell out of them.
>>Your not doing anything wrong. Keep up the good work! They will be
>>back and out when they are ready for something like this.

>>>We had a couple restroom incidents. One was early in the morning, and
>>>the person who was confronted admitted she was not dressed appropriate

>>Again, you full timers like Annie and Denise forget what it's like to
>>learn how to use a Ladies Room. I think I was more scared doing that
[bobbitt]

>>You might think of writing up a
>>list of hints and etiquitte about going to the Ladies Room.

>A couple of hints from someone who doe not dress often and has not had a
>problem in the Lady's room.

>1. Whatever you do, do not forget to sit

>2. Act like a lady, we can't act like we just got off an 18 wheeler or
>dirt bike

>3. If you are concerned about your voice do not speak, but do smile

>4. If you are really concerned, peek before you go in to make sure the
>lady's room isempty, if not and you are still concerned stand far enough
>to observe the tariffic, or throw a few coins in the slots, then go in
>when its empty. this hint is more for casinos. No matter how crowded a
>casino, I have never seen a mad exodus to the potty pot.

What I've been suggesting to our ladies who are not yet totally at ease
is to use it only when absolutely necessary, go in head held high, none
of this deer-in-headlights stuff, go directly to a stall, do it (yes,
sit ... i would assume ...), check yourself briefly in a mirror and get
out.

ObTrivia: Has anybody ever seen a female urinal?

>I have only being in public a couple of years, and not very often, and
>to date I have never had a problem in the Lady's room. If you act like
>you do not belong there believe me women will notice, so act the part
>and you will be OKAY, from a new comer. Remember not all women look
>like women.

One thing we forget too often is that there's quite a bit of variation
between women of various sizes, shapes. ages, etc. The stereotypical
Barbie Doll is indeed the exception and not the rule. As I think back
and look at the pictures, most of our people fall size and appearance
wise within a couple SD's of the peak of the curve.

>>>There was one major complaint, and several lesser comments, about some
>>>dress and demeanor issues during the dinner at the Sahara buffet.

>>I didn't see that. I was late, still getting ready and missed it, but
>>I sure heard about it. You've got to realize that beginners take some
>>time to learn what works for informal dinner, what works for a night
>>on the town, what works for a bar, a show, you name it. GG's pick
>>that up as they grow up. TG's have to learn it the hard way.

>>I know your not the fashion police, but you could consider letting
>>those who are not dressed properly know what they are doing, in a
>>nice way, of course.

>This is Vegas I have seen some people dressed pretty goofy wherever so
>lighten up ladies this is not boot camp
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Administrivia:

This is the Diva Las Vegas 2001 mailing list.

Diva Las Vegas 2001
May 2-7, 2001
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

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